teen dies after drinking caffeine too quickly (Mountain Dew, McDonalds latte and an energy drink)

dowie said:
likewise people who drink wine in moderation have lower risk of heart disease

though the point here is little to do with drinking caffeine in moderation
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Except substances in coffee are known to have positive influences such as reducing diabetes risks, as well as numerous other health risks. You can give caffeine to house flies or earth worms and they will live longer on average. that isn't due to Caffeine drinking earth worms having better lifestyles and working out at the gym, it is chemical reaction the caffeine creates that changes the physiology of the worm so it will live longer. The same is true for humans because when the studies are done external factors like socioeconomic status, lifestyle, education, career, geographic location are accounted for. You are probably also thinking of this form a UK perspective where there is a more obvious social divide between regular coffee drinkers and tea drinkers. In the US everyone drinks coffee, tea is pretty rare. In fact tea drinkers in the US are probably more liekly to be extra health conscious. Go to a supermarket here an there is an entire aisle of coffee, including a long stretch of whole beans to buy in bulk form dozens and dozens of different cofee produces. Shoved at the end is small selection of disappointing tea bags, half of which are specially designed for ice-tea!. So even if a study totally ignored external factors, the population as whole is not especially biased.
 
D.P. said:
Except substances in coffee are known to have positive influences such as reducing diabetes risks, as well as numerous other health risks. You can give caffeine to house flies or earth worms and they will live longer on average. that isn't due to Caffeine drinking earth worms having better lifestyles and working out at the gym, it is chemical reaction the caffeine creates that changes the physiology of the worm so it will live longer. The same is true for humans because when the studies are done external factors like socioeconomic status, lifestyle, education, career, geographic location are accounted for. You are probably also thinking of this form a UK perspective where there is a more obvious social divide between regular coffee drinkers and tea drinkers. In the US everyone drinks coffee, tea is pretty rare. In fact tea drinkers in the US are probably more liekly to be extra health conscious. Go to a supermarket here an there is an entire aisle of coffee, including a long stretch of whole beans to buy in bulk form dozens and dozens of different cofee produces. Shoved at the end is small selection of disappointing tea bags, half of which are specially designed for ice-tea!. So even if a study totally ignored external factors, the population as whole is not especially biased.
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I'm not sure what your point is?
 
Tefal said:
so none if you actually read those dp instead of just googleing "caffeine longevity";)

Edit: also omg how brilliant are those sites, like info wars for food :D

coffee and health strikes me as particularly impartial i must say.

although the 216 word count one is thoroughly convincing i must say kudos there.

shame half the words are could, might and may...

and the sentence


is kinda awkward....
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Ehh, you can go read hundreds of scientific articles if you have access to them. Those pages I linked above are in reference to peer-reviewed scientific research published in respectable medical journals.

Here is one, proving that isn't is not merely a correlation: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2958.2008.06292.x/full


Treatment of yeast cells with the specific TORC1 inhibitor rapamycin or caffeine releases Rim15 from TORC1-Sch9-mediated inhibition and consequently increases lifespan. This kinase cascade appears to have been evolutionarily conserved, suggesting that caffeine may extend lifespan in other eukaryotes, including man.
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Simialr: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acel.12080/full

An interesting article indicating coffee consumption reduces risks of Parkinson's disease
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192731
Conclusions Our findings indicate that higher coffee and caffeine intake is associated with a significantly lower incidence of PD.
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Another study using worms which allows intricate clinical analyses.
https://longevityandhealthspan.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2046-2395-1-9
Caffeine extends life span, improves healthspan, and delays age-associated pathology in Caenorhabditis elegans

Here we report that caffeine is capable of extending life span and improving healthspan in Caenorhabditis elegans, a finding that is in agreement with a recently published screen looking for FDA-approved compounds capable of extending worm life span. Life span extension using caffeine displays epistatic interaction with two known longevity interventions: dietary restriction and reduced insulin signaling. Caffeine treatment also delays pathology in a nematode model of polyglutamine disease.
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The insulin signaling is becoming a very well established hypothesis with lots of supporting evidence. As Is aid earlier, drinking coffee mediates insulin hypersensitivity and therefor can reduce risks of diabetes and also control body weight and fat.


Here is a systematic review looking at existing human studies on diebetes and coffee cosnumption
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/201177
Conclusions This systematic review supports the hypothesis that habitual coffee consumption is associated with a substantially lower risk of type 2 diabetes.
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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/089543569290051N
These results indicate that abstinence from coffee leads to compression of mortality rather than an increase in lifespan.
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I.e., you are more likely to get health problems earlier in lifie if you don't drink coffee, and thus have a lower life expectancy.



http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/747451
Results In men, the risk of nonfatal myocardial infarction was not associated with coffee drinking... The highest CHD mortality was found among those who did not drink coffee at all. Also, in women, all-cause mortality decreased by increasing coffee drinking. Non–coffee drinkers more often reported a history of various diseases and symptoms
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http://journals.lww.com/co-clinical...tea___perks_for_health_and_longevity_.14.aspx
Habitual coffee consumption in large epidemiological studies is associated with reduced mortality, both for all-cause and cardiovascular deaths. In addition, coffee intake is associated with risks of heart failure, stroke, diabetes mellitus and some cancers in an inverse dose-dependent fashion. Surprisingly, coffee is associated with neutral to reduced risks for both atrial and ventricular arrhythmias.
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Coffee reduced arthritis risks:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/art.22762/full






I can go on all day if you want.
 
dowie said:
I'm not sure what your point is?
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You seem to believe that drinking coffee is correlated to longer life expectancy through confounding factors rather than physiological changes, e.g. perhaps coffee drinkers have a healthier life style.
This isn't the case, coffee produced physiological changes detected through clinical investigation, and the correlation still exist in human populations when accounting for all different lifestyle factors.
 
D.P. said:
You seem to believe that drinking coffee is correlated to longer life expectancy through confounding factors rather than physiological changes, e.g. perhaps coffee drinkers have a healthier life style.
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What? Where have I posted that?

I've simply pointed out that all this stuff you're posting about coffee being healthy is irrelevant, this isn't about drinking coffee in moderation - this case involved a large does in a short period of time.
 
dowie said:
What? Where have I posted that?

I've simply pointed out that all this stuff you're posting about coffee being healthy is irrelevant, this isn't about drinking coffee in moderation - this case involved a large does in a short period of time.
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Fair enough, tefal was dismissive and I was reading too much in to your posts.


The large dose the guy had is also debatable as presented elsewhere, his consumption is not much more than a large strong brewed coffee, or 2 medium sized medium strength brewed coffees. Even high caffeine doses are not correlated with increased cardiovascular arrhythmia. I expect there is more this case than is being fully presented, or there were additional factors not found. E.g., perhaps it was the presence of other chemicals int eh energy drink that was the issue. Energy drinks have been associated with some health issues, but even caffeine free versions seem to be just as bad.
 
Yea 90kg is pretty chunky, unless they are a bodybuilder lol

Probably has a lot to do with that. A stressed heart having even more stress put on it, for long durations.
 
D.P. said:
The large dose the guy had is also debatable as presented elsewhere, his consumption is not much more than a large strong brewed coffee, or 2 medium sized medium strength brewed coffees. Even high caffeine doses are not correlated with increased cardiovascular arrhythmia. I expect there is more this case than is being fully presented, or there were additional factors not found. E.g., perhaps it was the presence of other chemicals int eh energy drink that was the issue. Energy drinks have been associated with some health issues, but even caffeine free versions seem to be just as bad.
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He had a coffee along with a can of mountain dew before chugging down the energy drink - AFAIK that is a bit more than two medium coffees...

I don't think there is much (or any) risk form moderate caffeine consumption but chugging down a big portion of some energy drink after already consuming caffeinated drinks probably isn't too good for you.
 
D.P. said:
Fair enough, tefal was dismissive and I was reading too much in to your posts.


The large dose the guy had is also debatable as presented elsewhere, his consumption is not much more than a large strong brewed coffee, or 2 medium sized medium strength brewed coffees. Even high caffeine doses are not correlated with increased cardiovascular arrhythmia. I expect there is more this case than is being fully presented, or there were additional factors not found. E.g., perhaps it was the presence of other chemicals int eh energy drink that was the issue. Energy drinks have been associated with some health issues, but even caffeine free versions seem to be just as bad.
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Who needs coroners and autopsies? DP is on this, solved from his sofa.
 
Its not a one off. Caffeine can cause heart arrhythmia which can lead to death, that is the case history afaik though Im reading some official advice which says its fine but I wouldn't ignore the risk personally. Its not that he for certain ingested fatal doses but his risk of life threatening interference with his heart rhythm was raised and that day he was unlucky, maybe he had other factors going or undiagnosed but the caffeine was a contributing factor. There is no doubt on that imo because its happened previously and will happen again.
Just consuming diet coke has led to death from one case I remember, this sounds slightly ridiculous as I think the amounts are lower then coffee but in that case the coke was constantly consumed every hour of the day from waking till sleep and it caused a problem.
With the heart that problem can too often mean death unfortunately. I think if these problems occurred in a hospital these people might live as the staff would stabilise it
 
Lightweight. I used to take 1000mg of powdered caffeine a day and pre workouts on top of that when i was younger. Surprised I never had a heart attack whilst at the gym or out running.

In all seriousness though this is a real shame but could have happened to anyone. Looking forward to everything being banned in the future.

I drink a pot of ground coffee a day now, maybe two but don't kick the*** out of it anymore, start feeling unwell after 4 cups a day.
 
Muzza1875 said:
Lightweight. I used to take 1000mg of powdered caffeine a day and pre workouts on top of that when i was younger. Surprised I never had a heart attack whilst at the gym or out running.

In all seriousness though this is a real shame but could have happened to anyone. Looking forward to everything being banned in the future.
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what has this got to do with something being banned?
 
dowie said:
He had a coffee along with a can of mountain dew before chugging down the energy drink - AFAIK that is a bit more than two medium coffees...

I don't think there is much (or any) risk form moderate caffeine consumption but chugging down a big portion of some energy drink after already consuming caffeinated drinks probably isn't too good for you.
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According to the news article 470mg of caffeine. A large brewed coffee is around 300mg, from Starbucks going up to 375mg. So 470mg is about 2 medium coffees.


Energy drinks don't actually contain much caffeine, typically 50-100mg which is less than a cup of coffee
 
Woden said:
Who needs coroners and autopsies? DP is on this, solved from his sofa.
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I am not disagreeing with the autopsy, i'm just pointing out a basic fact that millions of office workers and the students working in Starbucks will be consuming similar quantities of caffeine in a similar time period. Do you really think if someone brews some coffee at home for breakfast and then has another cup at work for 10am break is at a massively increased risk of heart issue, contrary to all known scientific research on the matter?

It was stated that the victim didn't have any known per-existing conditions but there could have eaisly been an underlying preexisting condition that wasn't known. What was this teenagers lifestyle like, was he consuming 1000-3000mg of caffeine day? Did he have underlying heart arrhythmia that had gone undetected
 
D.P. said:
According to the news article 470mg of caffeine. A large brewed coffee is around 300mg, from Starbucks going up to 375mg. So 470mg is about 2 medium coffees.


Energy drinks don't actually contain much caffeine, typically 50-100mg which is less than a cup of coffee
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when you say a large brewed coffee from Starbucks you're talking about half a litre of coffee...

the kid had one coffee, a McDonald's latte, which they quote as 140 mg... 470mg is like three of them.. given that half of that is attributed to the large energy drink he chugged down the effect is probably a fair bit different to drinking two or even three coffees - the coroner has already basically stated that it wasn't the quantity per say but the speed at which he drunk it
 
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