OC Help / New Cooler/Case?

[9dal39]

Not sure how relevant posting everything in my system is but thought id do it anyway.. having never OC'd or touched BIOS settings to do with memory speed or anything or even done XMP profiles, what would be the best thing to start with should I be trying to raise my CPU first before touching memory guys any help would be great?

Could someone suggest a better case? I know most people probably love the NXZT H440 but in my honest opinion airflow kinda sucks.

My tower is currently sat in a massive cupboard with the front sound proofing panel taken off and the door open the majority of the time (this cupboard does have air flow and honestly is massive its basically like keeping it in a separate room and has holes in the wall where wires are ran through to it, its actually cooler here than it was in my room but temps still get a a little high under load.

I'm also wondering if I change case should I go for an AIO cooler on my CPU? Running everything stock atm. no OC at all but after looking around online I'm tempted to start looking but wanted to have a better case / AIO cpu cooler in place first?

- Gigabyte GeForce GTX 980Ti G1 Gaming 6144MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card
- Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 7 Motherboard
- Devils Canyon Core i7 4790K CPU
- Samsung 1.0TB 850 EVO SSD
- XFX XTR 850W '80 Plus Gold' Fully Modular Power Supply
- TeamGroup Vulcan RED 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 PC3-19200C11 2400MHz Dual Channel Kit
- NZXT H440 Mid Tower Case - Black / Red
- ACX EVGA CPU cooler, Black - 120 mm
- 2 x Dell Ultrasharp U2515H 1440P (Only ever use 1 for playing games, and both when multitasking.

 

[Frank Jeagar]

I'd always start with OCing the CPU before tweaking the memory. It is just easier because otherwise you will be unsure what is causing instability. Also, CPU OCs will provide the greatest performance boost, so you want to OC as far as you can with the CPU and then do what you can with the memory after.

With the case I would honestly just browse OCUK's stock of mid towers and see what you like. Case choice is so much of a personal choice, but if pushed I'd have to say I'm a fan of the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M. But only if you are determined to get more airflow, I still quite like the H440 lol

Your cooler isn't awful, but probably won't be the best for OCing, especially with your GPU kicking out heat. I'd recommend a large air cooler (like the NH-D14 or the Dark Rock Pro) over a liquid cooler because performance is still great, but they are less likely to fail and are quieter at idle, but again, up to you.

If you are looking for OC potential, I'd prioritise upgrading the cooler over the case. You can always see how it goes from there, rather than transferring everything to a new case straight away because you might find your temps are fine.

 

[9dal39]

I'd always start with OCing the CPU before tweaking the memory. It is just easier because otherwise you will be unsure what is causing instability. Also, CPU OCs will provide the greatest performance boost, so you want to OC as far as you can with the CPU and then do what you can with the memory after.

With the case I would honestly just browse OCUK's stock of mid towers and see what you like. Case choice is so much of a personal choice, but if pushed I'd have to say I'm a fan of the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M. But only if you are determined to get more airflow, I still quite like the H440 lol

Your cooler isn't awful, but probably won't be the best for OCing, especially with your GPU kicking out heat. I'd recommend a large air cooler (like the NH-D14 or the Dark Rock Pro) over a liquid cooler because performance is still great, but they are less likely to fail and are quieter at idle, but again, up to you.

If you are looking for OC potential, I'd prioritise upgrading the cooler over the case. You can always see how it goes from there, rather than transferring everything to a new case straight away because you might find your temps are fine.

Thanks for the reply Frank, hmm so you'd prioritise changing cooler over the case because then if the temps drop I guess I won't need to change case ha! yeah I think its mainly the GPU pushing its heat out into the case thats a bit of a problem but ive got acres of space in my case, as obviously im not planning on SLI as theres just too many problems with it and I don't really need it for what I do to be fair.

I'd love to do a watercooling custom loop but difficult x time x money = too much for me haha

I know you said the air cooler would be quieter on idle, but other than noise is the AIO better for lower temps? as obviously it sits away from me anyway so noise isn't really a problem for me, also on my h440 I currently only use the standard fans that are on the front of the case, and the exhaust on the back is there any extra fans or different setup you can recommend for airflow?

 

[Frank Jeagar]

Haha, yeah I wouldn't ever "recommend" custom water cooling, it is just too much time and money to be justifiable based on performance, I don't blame you haha Are your GPU temps fine?

So as I understand it, single fan AIOs perform a bit worse than large air coolers, but dual fan AIOs perform either similarly or a little better than them. If you are overclocking your 4790k, you may want to go with a dual fan (240 or 280mm) AIO

The H440 has 3 fans in the front and 1 in the back as standard right? I'd say either put an AIO at the front of your case as an intake (will require you to remove some of the HDD trays) or put it at the top as an exhaust. At the front it won't suffer from your GPU, but at the top you can have more hard drives installed so it depends.

 

[9dal39]

Haha, yeah I wouldn't ever "recommend" custom water cooling, it is just too much time and money to be justifiable based on performance, I don't blame you haha Are your GPU temps fine?

So as I understand it, single fan AIOs perform a bit worse than large air coolers, but dual fan AIOs perform either similarly or a little better than them. If you are overclocking your 4790k, you may want to go with a dual fan (240 or 280mm) AIO

The H440 has 3 fans in the front and 1 in the back as standard right? I'd say either put an AIO at the front of your case as an intake (will require you to remove some of the HDD trays) or put it at the top as an exhaust. At the front it won't suffer from your GPU, but at the top you can have more hard drives installed so it depends.

yeah was thinking more a 240-280mm AIO with a dual fan setup as seen most people go for the coolermaster 115i then order 2 new fans to keep it quieter, but I can always try it in original settings.. hmm so attaching the RAD in the front of the case instead of the 3 fans already there? sorry for the rookie questions never used an AIO or anything always been on air!

not fussed for the HDD trays tbh, as I literally only use my 1TB 850 EVO, nothing else is in there at all ha so plenty of space available! yeah my GPU temps go quite high as well to be fair both CPU and GPU go up but I assume this is from the heat thats being put out into the case from both?

 

[doyll]

Not sure how relevant posting everything in my system is but thought id do it anyway.. having never OC'd or touched BIOS settings to do with memory speed or anything or even done XMP profiles, what would be the best thing to start with should I be trying to raise my CPU first before touching memory guys any help would be great?

Could someone suggest a better case? I know most people probably love the NXZT H440 but in my honest opinion airflow kinda sucks.

My tower is currently sat in a massive cupboard with the front sound proofing panel taken off and the door open the majority of the time (this cupboard does have air flow and honestly is massive its basically like keeping it in a separate room and has holes in the wall where wires are ran through to it, its actually cooler here than it was in my room but temps still get a a little high under load.

I'm also wondering if I change case should I go for an AIO cooler on my CPU? Running everything stock atm. no OC at all but after looking around online I'm tempted to start looking but wanted to have a better case / AIO cpu cooler in place first?

- Gigabyte GeForce GTX 980Ti G1 Gaming 6144MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card
- Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 7 Motherboard
- Devils Canyon Core i7 4790K CPU
- Samsung 1.0TB 850 EVO SSD
- XFX XTR 850W '80 Plus Gold' Fully Modular Power Supply
- TeamGroup Vulcan RED 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 PC3-19200C11 2400MHz Dual Channel Kit
- NZXT H440 Mid Tower Case - Black / Red
- ACX EVGA CPU cooler, Black - 120 mm
- 2 x Dell Ultrasharp U2515H 1440P (Only ever use 1 for playing games, and both when multitasking.

I have to ask, what is the temperature of air flowing into cooler? I find most cases (regardless of how good they are) supply CPU and GPU coolers with air that is 10-20c warmer than room is when system is working hard for more than a few minutes .. and every degree warmer the air is loosely translates into a degree warmer the CPU / GPU are.
Here is a basic guide to how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow. Feel free to ask questions.

 

[Frank Jeagar]

yeah was thinking more a 240-280mm AIO with a dual fan setup as seen most people go for the coolermaster 115i then order 2 new fans to keep it quieter, but I can always try it in original settings.. hmm so attaching the RAD in the front of the case instead of the 3 fans already there? sorry for the rookie questions never used an AIO or anything always been on air!

not fussed for the HDD trays tbh, as I literally only use my 1TB 850 EVO, nothing else is in there at all ha so plenty of space available! yeah my GPU temps go quite high as well to be fair both CPU and GPU go up but I assume this is from the heat thats being put out into the case from both?

I'd put a 240/280 rad in the front in the top two fan spots and leave the bottom fan their as an air intake for the GPU. That way your CPU temps won't be affected by your GPU, but your GPU will still get good airflow.

You can also use one of the fans you take out of the front as an extra exhaust in the top. Putting an extra fan in the top as an exhaust wouldn't be a bad idea since you have it spare, it may help your GPU temps by dispelling the hot air in the case faster.

 

[Frank Jeagar]

... it may help your GPU temps by dispelling the hot air in the case faster.

Straight up describing how fans work, cheers Frank

 

[9dal39]

Straight up describing how fans work, cheers Frank

hahaha Thanks Frank yeah I'll give it a go, in a different post in another section been recommended the Hydro Series H100i v2 in another thread thats a 240mm rad with 2 x 120MM advanced SPL120 fans.

or there's the other I was looking at the Hydro Series H115i this ones 280mm rad with 2 x 140mm SL140's but not the advanced version? if theres even a difference between advanced and non advanced SPL fans ha?

 

[9dal39]

I have to ask, what is the temperature of air flowing into cooler? I find most cases (regardless of how good they are) supply CPU and GPU coolers with air that is 10-20c warmer than room is when system is working hard for more than a few minutes .. and every degree warmer the air is loosely translates into a degree warmer the CPU / GPU are.
Here is a basic guide to how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow. Feel free to ask questions.

erm how would I determine this Doyll? any particular way of doing it I assume you mean the air surrounding the computer outside thats being dragged into the case correct?

 

[doyll]

erm how would I determine this Doyll? any particular way of doing it I assume you mean the air surrounding the computer outside thats being dragged into the case correct?

erm you obviously didn't even look at what "Here is a basic guide to how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow" links to in my post you quoted.

 

[Frank Jeagar]

hahaha Thanks Frank yeah I'll give it a go, in a different post in another section been recommended the Hydro Series H100i v2 in another thread thats a 240mm rad with 2 x 120MM advanced SPL120 fans.

or there's the other I was looking at the Hydro Series H115i this ones 280mm rad with 2 x 140mm SL140's but not the advanced version? If there's even a difference between advanced and non advanced SPL fans ha?

I think the advanced fans have a bit less airflow, but are also a bit quieter. Really there isn't much difference between any of the dual fan liquid coolers (they all use the same pump and just rebrand it, except for cooler master), so I would just pick up the cheapest one haha.

This OCUK one is a good price, but doesn't come with any instructions. So yeah...
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ocuk...ooling-upgrade-bundle-bu-097-tl.html#comments

But for £2 more I think this Arctic one is a great deal at the moment and comes with four nice fans (I actually wouldn't bother replacing them):
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/arctic-cooling-liquid-freezer-aio-cpu-cooler-240mm-hs-06b-ar.html

The arctic one will outperform the Corsair ones if you use all four fans, and will be quieter even if you just use two (those fans are fairly decent).

 

[9dal39]

I think the advanced fans have a bit less airflow, but are also a bit quieter. Really there isn't much difference between any of the dual fan liquid coolers (they all use the same pump and just rebrand it, except for cooler master), so I would just pick up the cheapest one haha.

This OCUK one is a good price, but doesn't come with any instructions. So yeah...
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ocuk...ooling-upgrade-bundle-bu-097-tl.html#comments

But for £2 more I think this Arctic one is a great deal at the moment and comes with four nice fans (I actually wouldn't bother replacing them):
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/arctic-cooling-liquid-freezer-aio-cpu-cooler-240mm-hs-06b-ar.html

The arctic one will outperform the Corsair ones if you use all four fans, and will be quieter even if you just use two (those fans are fairly decent).

ahh so the arctic one you quoted last will outperform the two corsair ones I had been recommended? after looking at the pics I believe its 2 fans infront then 2 fans the otherside so in regards to my case, would I just remove the top 2 of the front 3 fans, stick this in their place, then move one of 2 said fans to the top rear of the case as an extra exhaust?

 

[9dal39]

erm you obviously didn't even look at what "Here is a basic guide to how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow" links to in my post you quoted.

I did I just didn't quite understand it from reading haha but I did have to quickly skim over it as I was in work at the time! will give it a proper read shortly sorry doyle.

 

[doyll]

If you want a new cooler I suggest getting a top tier air cooler. They cool as well and usually quieter than CLCs do, are much more dependable because the only thing that can go bad is the fan. CLCs are aluminum radiator with pump that only barely moves enough coolant. They are built just good enough to last 2-5 years, and if it goes bad you have no cooling at all until you change the cooler .. not cheap and not quick. With air the cooler still works even if fan does fail and a replacement fan is not expensive. All twin fan CLCs do not cool the same. Some use 240mm radiators and some use 280mm radiators ..that is 288sq cm versus 392sq cm of radiator area. Obviously the bigger area has more cooling ability. Anandtech tested 14 CLCs with loads from 60w to 340w awith temperatures ranging from 22.6c to 41.8c delta fans at full speed. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7738/closed-loop-aio-liquid-coolers/9

 

[Frank Jeagar]

ahh so the arctic one you quoted last will outperform the two corsair ones I had been recommended? after looking at the pics I believe its 2 fans infront then 2 fans the otherside so in regards to my case, would I just remove the top 2 of the front 3 fans, stick this in their place, then move one of 2 said fans to the top rear of the case as an extra exhaust?

You got it! The cooler should fit in your case in that way, even with fans on either side of it.

And yes, with all four fans the Arctic cooler outperforms the H100i V2 AND it is quieter.

 

[Frank Jeagar]

If you want a new cooler I suggest getting a top tier air cooler. They cool as well and usually quieter than CLCs do, are much more dependable because the only thing that can go bad is the fan. CLCs are aluminum radiator with pump that only barely moves enough coolant. They are built just good enough to last 2-5 years, and if it goes bad you have no cooling at all until you change the cooler .. not cheap and not quick. With air the cooler still works even if fan does fail and a replacement fan is not expensive. All twin fan CLCs do not cool the same. Some use 240mm radiators and some use 280mm radiators ..that is 288sq cm versus 392sq cm of radiator area. Obviously the bigger area has more cooling ability. Anandtech tested 14 CLCs with loads from 60w to 340w awith temperatures ranging from 22.6c to 41.8c delta fans at full speed. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7738/closed-loop-aio-liquid-coolers/9

The problem with air coolers in this situation is he considers his GPU to be the main cause of his high temps and mounting a water cooler at the front will get around this problem.

And the review you linked shows that even at 340W the temperatures of the dual fan coolers have a range of 2.3c (22.6-24.9) with the exception of the Silverstone TD02 for some reason (which is odd considering it performs well in tests from other reviewers). The real world difference between the different dual fan coolers isn't that significant. The difference of 22.6-41.8c you quoted is including the single fan coolers.

 

[doyll]

I agree, GPUs are a problem because of the way the dump heated air everywhere inside of the case. But with a little understanding of how airflow works an setting up case fans accordingly it is not hard to get cool air to an air cooler on CPU.

Mounting a water cooler in the front is supplying heated air to the GPU. That means CPU's heated air is being supplied to GPU and will raise GPU temps.

Your 2.3c heat range is with fans running full speed and making up to 56dB of noise. Slow the fans down to a maximum of 47.4dB and the temperature range is much greater. Yes I just gave the full spread of all CLCs in the review.

Most reviews are not done with accurate standards. They test in a case using room ambient air temp and claim it is "real world use". The reality as you know is that the airflow inside of case is warmer than room, so using room air temp gives results that are usually at least 2c and can easily be 20c from what they would be if testing was done using cooler intake airflow temp as baseline. They are not comparing coolers against coolers. They are only testing how differnet cooler perform in their specific system. So unless you have an identical system with identical fan curves you will most likely be getting different results. Anandtech testing gives us actual cooler to cooler comparisons.

There are many problems with CLCs. I see people coming back for CLC to air all the time and being amazing how much quieter air cooling is with similar temps. I have been playing with different cooling systems from when we were making our own waterblocks, using aquarium & pond pumps wiht car radiators.

CLCs are built with the lowest possible quality possible to last just long enough so users are moving on to a new computer and cooling system. If you want to go water cooling at least step up to AIOs (not clcs) like be quiet! Silent Loop, AquaCool Eisbaer or Fractal Design Kelvin. They have proper fittings, a fill point, copper radiator and pump that flows twice as much as CLCs do.

 

[Frank Jeagar]

Your 2.3c heat range is with fans running full speed and making up to 56dB of noise. Slow the fans down to a maximum of 47.4dB and the temperature range is much greater. Yes I just gave the full spread of all CLCs in the review.

I was just using your own methodology. You were misquoting the range as representing only the dual fan AIOs.

And up to 56db is very far from the truth, it is entirely dependent on the fans used. The fans supplied with the Arctic cooler I linked are very quiet and only go to 1350rpm.

As for heated air being supplied to the GPU, not exactly. The bottom fan will be mostly supplying the GPU and that will not be on the radiator so it will be fresh air. Also, the difference in temperature between the air going into a radiator and the air coming out is not that high and wouldn't have a very significant impact. Considering that, the little increase in temperature that would end up affecting the GPU from the CPU would be handled easily by the G1 gaming 980 Ti being used.

 

[doyll]

Sorry, like I said the temperature difference did include the 120mm radiators. I also pointed out that CLCs are a sub group of AIOs.

"Up to 56dB" is the true and accurate truth .. it is exactly what the Anandtech data shows for the CLCs they tested with stock fans running at full speed.

Sure, we can use bottom fan to help get cool air to GPU, but we can also optimize case airflow so an air cooler on CPU receives cool air. I build lots of air cooled systems with airflow into CPU and GPU being 2-5c above room ambient when system is under full load. Many stock builds with be supplying air warmer than that to the GPU.

There are easily as many good reasons to not optimize case airflow and use an air cooler and you can come up with to justify using CLCs .. and it can be done at a lower cost with more dependability than when using a CLC.