Heavy fines for those that refuse vaccination in Germany

[asim18]

Because there are a small volume of people who genuinely can't have the vaccine, and so require herd immunity to keep them safe. The refusal to vaccinate children capable of having the vaccine doesn't just endanger them, it endangers other people (both adults and children) who have genuine reasons why they didn't have a vaccination.

I am personally very wary of places where measles is common for precisely this reason.

But isn't true genetic immunity better than short term herd immunity? If someone dies because they're too weak to handle some infections, then surely that's a good thing for the future (as long as they didn't have children). In fact it's a well known and basic fact that medical intervention/artificial sustaining simply weakens all humanity. This is the fundament of medicine.

Heard immunity just seems a bit of an emotive stance which favours loved ones. No I personally don't care for herd immunity, I just want the the humans with the strongest genetics to thrive, like it's supposed to be.

I believe we should try to live in a sort of natural homoeostasis/equilibrium with all the other life on earth, instead of selfishly and emotionally sustaining our insignificant "herd" using artificial means.

Many of the vaccines are based on methods that have been tested thoroughly for decades and what side affects there are, are generally far rarer and milder than you'd get from the illnesses they help prevent.

That's not the case with polio for one. As well as easily identifiable and preventable things like non-airborne STDs.

70% of people infected with polio show absolutely no symptoms whatsoever. You know why? Because polio has existed for thousands of years, well before artificial life sustaining. So people who used to die from polio outbreaks thousands of years ago, died so we can have 70% today with genetic resistance that's so strong - it doesn't affect them at all. Not only that, less than 0.15% of people will die.

Now imagine if we had started vaccinating some people against polio 3000 years ago. Today we'd be absolutely ****ed against polio. That 70% figure of genetic resistance would be more like 0%. Now imagine 3000 years into the future, if we keep vaccinating absolutely everyone against absolutely everything, it doesn't look good at all.


In fact you know those pics where they have rows and rows of ventilators? That was only because they infected 120,000 children with live polio, and you know how many died? Only five! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories

 

[dowie]

I believe we should try to live in a sort of natural homoeostasis/equilibrium with all the other life on earth, instead of selfishly and emotionally sustaining our insignificant "herd" using artificial means.

so we should just get rid of modern medicine - you never visit a GP I presume?

 

[Destination]

But isn't true genetic immunity better than short term herd immunity? If someone dies because they're too weak to handle some infections, then surely that's a good thing for the future (as long as they didn't have children). In fact it's a well known and basic fact that medical intervention/artificial sustaining simply weakens all humanity. This is the fundament of medicine.

Heard immunity just seems a bit of an emotive stance which favours loved ones. No I personally don't care for herd immunity, I just want the the humans with the strongest genetics to thrive, like it's supposed to be.

I believe we should try to live in a sort of natural homoeostasis/equilibrium with all the other life on earth, instead of selfishly and emotionally sustaining our insignificant "herd" using artificial means.



That's not the case with polio for one. As well as easily identifiable and preventable things like non-airborne STDs.

70% of people infected with polio show absolutely no symptoms whatsoever. You know why? Because polio has existed for thousands of years, well before artificial life sustaining. So people who used to die from polio outbreaks thousands of years ago, died so we can have 70% today with genetic resistance that's so strong - it doesn't affect them at all. Not only that, less than 0.15% of people will die.

Now imagine if we had started vaccinating some people against polio 3000 years ago. Today we'd be absolutely ****ed against polio. That 70% figure of genetic resistance would be more like 0%. Now imagine 3000 years into the future, if we keep vaccinating absolutely everyone against absolutely everything, it doesn't look good at all.


In fact you know those pics where they have rows and rows of ventilators? That was only because they infected 120,000 children with live polio, and you know how many died? Only five! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories

You are a fool if you think fifty deaths per million infections is a good number when an injection to each would drop the number to zero.
Its like you have missed the entire concept of modern medicine.
Next fifty people to have heart attacks, just let them die, because those who don't have heart attacks will be stronger.
Survival of the fittest is what you are suggesting, with no intervention. Thats grand for direct population immunity over long periods of time, but that isn't how the world works today.
Not in the advanced nations anyway.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Talks about wanting a world with stronger/better genetics whilst displaying below average intelligence, hmmmm

 

[asim18]

You are a fool

First 4 words and you've lost all civility already.

if you think fifty deaths per million infections is a good number when an injection to each would drop the number to zero.

That's not the point....
I don't think 50 deaths is "good", you've twisted it a little. What I'm saying is hard wired genetic resistance to certain infections, is amazing that's all. The point is genetic resistance. Nice how you completely ignore the actual point. And continue about emotion stuff, like death, i already accepted there will be emotional reasons.

Also your maths is ignoring key variables. 50 deaths per million is an extremely small number, those 50 people are going to die sooner or later anyway. So is it really worth spending money on 1 million vaccines when it will only affect 50 of those people? - who will then go on to die regardless.

Its like you have missed the entire concept of modern medicine.

But you've missed the entire concept of natural evolution of all life on earth its a simple point. Modern medicine is relatively young and incredibly insignificant compared to the natural resistances to many things which we've built over thousands upon thousands of years - as I explained if we were dishing out polio vaccine 3000 years ago the amount of people with hard wired total genetic resistance would probably be a little lower than what it is now. It's just a small point worth recognising.

It's not exactly hard to understand the fundament of modern medicine - just keep it alive as long as possible, it takes more brain cells to understand how we're actually weakening humanity by sustaining crap genetics.

Next fifty people to have heart attacks, just let them die, because those who don't have heart attacks will be stronger.

Well yes and no. Heart issues are certainly genetic as well. "If you have a family history of cardiovascular disease, you have an increased risk of developing cardiovascular diseases such as coronary heart disease, angina, heart attack, heart failure and stroke." - BHF

But most people will have had children by the time they have a heart attack. I mean if it takes you before you have children it will automatically save ~3 children from having potential genetic heart conditions, and then 9 children if those 3 children would have grown up and had 3 kids each.

Survival of the fittest is what you are suggesting, with no intervention. Thats grand for direct population immunity over long periods of time, but that isn't how the world works today.
Not in the advanced nations anyway.

Wait. You're agreeing that genetic resistance is grand. Thanks.....

Also I know it's not how the world works today and i accept the reality - that's the whole point of why we have so many genetically weak humans around now!

 

[Dolph]

But isn't true genetic immunity better than short term herd immunity? If someone dies because they're too weak to handle some infections, then surely that's a good thing for the future (as long as they didn't have children). In fact it's a well known and basic fact that medical intervention/artificial sustaining simply weakens all humanity. This is the fundament of medicine.

Heard immunity just seems a bit of an emotive stance which favours loved ones. No I personally don't care for herd immunity, I just want the the humans with the strongest genetics to thrive, like it's supposed to be.

I believe we should try to live in a sort of natural homoeostasis/equilibrium with all the other life on earth, instead of selfishly and emotionally sustaining our insignificant "herd" using artificial means.

So because I had severe allergic reactions to eggs as a child, it's ok for me to get measles, with all the consequences that entails? (And given that complications from childhood measles pre immunisation was the cause of my mother in laws death last year in her early 60s, I'm very aware of those consequences)

I do hope you are living by this code, shunning all medical interventions of any form. Otherwise this stance of yours would seem massively flawed.

 

[olivier renault]

I do hope you are living by this code, shunning all medical interventions of any form. Otherwise this stance of yours would seem massively flawed.

Quite typical of anti-vaccine advocates. Wait until something happens to them or their relatives. They will either change their tune, or blame it on something else.

 

[aardvark]

Wait. You're agreeing that genetic resistance is grand. Thanks.....

Also I know it's not how the world works today and i accept the reality - that's the whole point of why we have so many genetically weak humans around now!

so you will be trusting in your genetic strength then and never getting any medical help i assume?????

 

[asim18]

Stuff has happened to my relatives too it's part of life, I never ignored the emotional aspect of it I did mention it earlier as well.

Otherwise this stance of yours would seem massively flawed.

Stance is a strong word I'm just recognising certain points about certain things, i specifically mentioned polio.

So lets keep it simple and look at the second paragraph on Wikipedia article for polio:

Poliovirus is usually spread from person to person through infected fecal matter entering the mouth.[1] It may also be spread by food or water containing human feces and less commonly from infected saliva.[1][3] Those who are infected may spread the disease for up to six weeks even if no symptoms are present. The disease may be diagnosed by finding the virus in the feces or detecting antibodies against it in the blood. The disease only occurs naturally in humans.[1]

So am I right in thinking polio is only really a problem if you're into, lets just say, questionable stuff - or if you are unwittingly being fed poop. If someone came up with a case of polio I'd wonder what he'd swallowed, and if anyone else was at risk of swallowing it too. Heck it can help identify areas of deeper concern!

 

[asim18]

so you will be trusting in your genetic strength then and never getting any medical help i assume?????

Ive been trusting it for many years now lol, doesnt suddenly mean im never going to take medicine, thats a bit of a leap im just recognising some simple facts of life. Nothing wrong with being amazed at genetic resistance and thinking its healthier for the species than pumping everyone full of drugs.

Heck i could have even gotten polio even though i dont remember eating any poop. its just that 70% show absolutely no symptoms.

Forget polio they even vaccinate new born babies against STDs (at least in the usa), the point is many of these diseases can very easily be avoided using simple things like hygene, doesnt mean im against absolutely all vaccines all the time.

 

[StriderX]

You can probably get polio in a decently unclean toilet just by breathing.

 

[asim18]

You can probably get polio in a decently unclean toilet just by breathing.

Might I suggest you clean your toilet. The fix for "unclean" is to make clean.

It's not a fix to simply ignore the issue and suddenly pump full of drugs. Because then the toilet just gets dirtier and dirtier and then worse diseases start collecting, like herpes maybe.

 

[Orionaut]

So am I right in thinking polio is only really a problem if you're into, lets just say, questionable stuff - or if you are unwittingly being fed poop. If someone came up with a case of polio I'd wonder what he'd swallowed, and if anyone else was at risk of swallowing it too. Heck it can help identify areas of deeper concern!

Back in the day, Polio outbreaks were always associated with public swimming pools!

(Sign at public bath... "There is no "P" in our swimming ool, Please try to keep it that way"..)

 

[Orionaut]

Back to original issue..

Governmet wants mass vaccination in the interests of Public health...... Fine

Government enforces this by threat of fines (Or other sanctions-See Oz)....Fine

However, if the government wants to go down this route, Then......

There should be a generous and hassle free (IE without having decades of legal argument and stress) compensation scheme in place for the small number of children who WILL inevitably end up being vaccine damaged.

 

[pooley]

some of the ingredients ive read they have used to make the polio vaccine: aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde, ammonium sulfate, washed sheep red blood cells, thimerosal this contains mercury
not something i would want injected into me.

 

[Nasher]

It's such a tiny amount it makes no difference. You most likely breath in more toxins daily.

If people aren't going to get vaccinated, they might as well just never go outside. Because many people are carriers for the diseases we vaccinate against.

 

[pooley]

It's such a tiny amount it makes no difference. You most likely breath in more toxins daily.

If people aren't going to get vaccinated, they might as well just never go outside. Because many people are carriers for the diseases we vaccinate against.

even if that is true, ask yourself why are they even there?

 

[Glaucus]

even if that is true, ask yourself why are they even there?

rather than holding insane and stupid opinions, why not go educate yourself on vaccines. or is that to hard, and its easier just to believe rubbish.

you can start here
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/pa...downloads/vacsafe-thimerosal-color-office.pdf

do you drink alcohol, you know what that metabolises into in the body?
have fillings?
or many other things.
yet more nonsense due to not bothering to seek knowledge.

 

[dowie]

even if that is true, ask yourself why are they even there?

part of a mind control conspiracy obviously

or the researchers are just trolling you and added all sorts of things simply because they're evil

 

[pooley]

rather than holding insane and stupid opinions, why not go educate yourself on vaccines. or is that to hard, and its easier just to believe rubbish.

you can start here
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/pa...downloads/vacsafe-thimerosal-color-office.pdf

do you drink alcohol, you know what that metabolises into in the body?
have fillings?
or many other things.
yet more nonsense due to not bothering to seek knowledge.

so what you are saying that mercury is safe to consume? i was told at school that mercury is poisonous.
what's insane and stupid about that?