I completely agree with them performing better in the snow. But can you link me to a test comparing a winter tyre to a high performance summer tyre in cold and wet conditions? Without any snow?
Is it difficult & dangerous to drive in the snow with Rear wheel drive car, 200 HP in the winter?
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I completely agree with them performing better in the snow. But can you link me to a test comparing a winter tyre to a high performance summer tyre in cold and wet conditions? Without any snow?
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Ah apologies - I thought that's what you were hinting at, because the OP was in Canada with lots of snow.
I think I remember reading somewhere that at temps hovering around 0C winter tyres have better straight line braking but worse handling, or vice versa - cannot remember the test now. I'll see if I can find it.
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None of them feature decent uhp tyres and all of them make the bizarre assumption that all summer tyres perform the same.
We have a set of summer and winter tyres for the Mini. The only area the winter tyres provide a credible difference is in wintry conditions.
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But that's surely the whole point of winter tyres - wintry conditions?! That's what I'm driving at...
I think that was the point being made until someone came along and trotted out the 'its not just for snow it's also for when it's 6c' line.
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I guess we never really experience enough of wintry conditions in this country for us to really be able to exploit them. In Canada I'm sure winter tyres would be a lot more beneficial.
Somewhere like Canada where I'm sure it stays below 7C for prolonged periods, winter tyres do come to be useful.
Somewhere like Canada where I'm sure it stays below 7C for prolonged periods, winter tyres do come to be useful.
Still doesn't mean they are 4x4 though
That's a very specific test though. Honestly no, but if you're putting high performance sports tyres on and planning to test them against winter tyres at/just below the freshold then you'll likely not find a test that matches.
Like summer tyres all winter tyres are not the same and 7 degrees isn't going to be the defining point for everything in every condition. It's a good rule of thumb based on averages. It'll also be gradual rather than some kind of on/off switch.
My question would be why do you believe a decent winter tyre specifically designed with softer stickier rubber and a tread is going to be worse than a summer tyre specifically designed for warmer conditions?
What I will say though is when looking for winter tyres last autumn there were a lot of articles showing in cold wet conditions they outstopped summers/all seasons, not just in snow. Whether they were the specific tyre your after I honestly don't know.
Besides a slight decrease in handling/grip at 5 degrees isn't going to make much difference to your life if you have lots already, but that bit of black ice/frost the next morning that sends you in the ditch probably will. You want all the grip you can get in those situations. It's a tradeoff, just a winter tyres are generally noisier and provide a worse fuel economy.
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That's not what I meant in the slightest and you know that.
I was replying to a guy insisting they are only good for snow and ice, and somehow perform significantly worse in cold, wet conditions. They're called winter tyres for a reason, not snow tyres.
Much like your examples my criteria isn't quite that clear cut. To answer this question directly I think it's because there tread pattern is speficially diesnged to give optimum grip in snow / ice at sub zero temperatures, and there performance everywhere else is compromised because of this.
To pose the question another way. If winter tyres are so good in cold and damp conditions, why is it so hard to find a test of them against ultra high performance summers in this scenario? If they truly were better I'd imagine it would be plasterd everywhere. In truth, I'd wager they outclass all on snow / ice, beat something like an ecocontact in cold and wet, but get spanked by something like a sport contact 5. Unfortunately if people knew this they likely wouldn't sell as many in this climate.
Still doesn't mean they are 4x4 though
The majority of late model BMW's I've seen there have been xDrive cars. Heck even my last rental Cadillac ATS was an ATS4.
Stop posting stuff that's wrong all the time or everyone will think I set out to be pedantic to all your posts
The term 4x4 doesn't mean 'all 4 wheels driven with equal power to each one'.
Infact are there any new cars left that have zero configuration when it comes to how much drive goes where? I doubt even the current Discovery is always driving every wheel with equal power.
Infact are there any new cars left that have zero configuration when it comes to how much drive goes where? I doubt even the current Discovery is always driving every wheel with equal power.
The difference is between part time 4wd (like the German brands, even Audis have been for a long time) and permanent 4wd (like Suburus). The part time one is mostly used for safety, a bit like an extension of traction control. Where as Suburus are actually good off-roaders and handle much better on snow etc.
Only the Haldex Audis are part time 4wd - BMW XDrive and the proper Audi quattro system are full time 4wd, but can vary where the power is sent. AFAIK they are never purely 2wd.
Are sport contact 5s the standard tyre on your average new stock Mondeo or Focus now?
But I agree broadly in principle. A high performance summer tyre may well beat a good winter in marginal cold/wet conditions (your aforementioned 5 degrees and wet) if you're looking for something to hold on as much as possible when your thrashing round a corner or hitting the breaks hard. That's going to change significantly when you hit that patch of frost, or ice, or it snows, or you're heading back home one evening in December and the temperature is hovering around freezing.
The problem is, as I mentioned, most people aren't using high performance aftermarket tyres, they're using the ones that came as standard with their new car, or the ones their dealership put on when they had it serviced. Mid range/decent tyres that are fine in most conditions, but will probably be outpaced in most situations during a UK winter.
Personally I'd rather lose a bit of performance in places where it's not needed for significant gains in areas it is needed. Most people aren't going to spin out going round a corner or slide 50ft at the lights when it's 5 degrees and a bit wet no matter the tyre, but the winter may just stop you doing that on a cold winters evening.
As I said originally, it's marginal in the UK, and whether it makes sense economically is up to the person themselves, but to suggest because the UK doesn't get lots of snow and ice winter tyres are pointless is short sighted. We didn't put winter tyres on in the UK for example.
As the OPs in Canada I'd definitely recommend winter tyres no matter the vehicle. We got two sets for both our vehicles (RWD pickup and a fwd VW).