Finsbury Park Van Attack

Participant · 19 Jun 2017 at 22:45

"Part and parcel of living in a big city"

Nitefly · 19 Jun 2017 at 22:49

Ugh I'd wish y'all drop this left wing / right wing 'football team' nonsense.

Hurrr dem right winger hurrr dem left wingers.

Hurts my head

StriderX · 19 Jun 2017 at 22:50

Nitefly said:
Ugh I'd wish y'all drop this left wing / right wing 'football team' nonsense.

Hurrr dem right winger hurrr dem left wingers.

Hurts my head

It's not even really correct, at least without the other degree of political freedom (state authority).

Amp34 · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:07

Tosno said:
They finally get an illusive "far right islamophobe" terrorist to point to, they can put him next to Anders Breivik and delude themselves into thinking that's somehow equivalent to 30,000 Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11..

It seems a small list when you only include one other incident...

How about the mosque shooting in canada at the beginning of this year (six killed, 19 injured), how about the stabbing in Portland about a month ago? How about the stabbing in New York in March, or the Mosque arson attacks in Sweden (no deaths thankfully)? That's just this year.

Last year we had Jo Cox and 2015 a raft of killings, as well as grenade throwing and shooting at mosques after Charlie Hebdo.

In fact 73% of extremist incidents that resulted in deaths in the US since 9/11 were "right wing" extremist groups.

And a few more... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

It's something that has been pointed out in other threads when specific targeting of Muslims has been brought up, yet it's just called deflection in those threads. Can't deflect now can you

.

ak22 · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:10

Good to see people keeping their cool

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...r-protecting-finsbury-park-suspect-from-crowd

Amp34 · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:12

Nitefly said:
Ugh I'd wish y'all drop this left wing / right wing 'football team' nonsense.

Hurrr dem right winger hurrr dem left wingers.

Hurts my head

Agreed, it a rubbish set of names that don't really fit what they are being used for, especially the useless US definitions.

Tosno · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:22

Amp34 said:
It seems a small list when you only include one other incident...

How about the mosque shooting in canada at the beginning of this year (six killed, 19 injured), how about the stabbing in Portland about a month ago? How about the stabbing in New York in March, or the Mosque arson attacks in Sweden (no deaths thankfully)? That's just this year.

Last year we had Jo Cox and 2015 a raft of killings, as well as grenade throwing and shooting at mosques after Charlie Hebdo.

In fact 73% of extremist incidents that resulted in deaths in the US since 9/11 were "right wing" extremist groups.

And a few more... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

It's something that has been pointed out in other threads when specific targeting of Muslims has been brought up, yet it's just called deflection in those threads. Can't deflect now can you .

That 73% figure is BS.To arrive at that figure they have to include alleged graffiti vandalism. And each "incident" is given the same weight. So the Orlando nightclub massacre and a piece of graffiti are both counted as "one" incident. The Portland stabbing was done by a Bernie supporter, explain how that counts as "far right" extremism?

Nexus · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:24

h4rm0ny said:
That's a good description. I tried looking up where you meant on Street View but I couldn't quite find it. Can you link to it here?

https://binged.it/2rwNOJG

Just move the nap to where it is and click "share" and it will give a URL for exactly that angle and position. That's if you're willing to take a few moments!

Sorry hadn't looked at the thread for a while.
I wasn't getting on very well with Bing, so here it is on Google Maps:

https://goo.gl/maps/VwWa9uDtVXC2

If you spin the camera around, you can see Seven Sisters Road and the bus lane he approached from.
Like I said, it's a very tight turning.

Johno please? · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:25

Amp34 said:
It seems a small list when you only include one other incident...

How about the mosque shooting in canada at the beginning of this year (six killed, 19 injured), how about the stabbing in Portland about a month ago? How about the stabbing in New York in March, or the Mosque arson attacks in Sweden (no deaths thankfully)? That's just this year.

Last year we had Jo Cox and 2015 a raft of killings, as well as grenade throwing and shooting at mosques after Charlie Hebdo.

In fact 73% of extremist incidents that resulted in deaths in the US since 9/11 were "right wing" extremist groups.

And a few more... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

It's something that has been pointed out in other threads when specific targeting of Muslims has been brought up, yet it's just called deflection in those threads. Can't deflect now can you .

God you remind me of Castiel.... anyone remember him? Coming to the defense of religions whenever he could.

If you want to play terrorist top trumps, Islamic inspired attacks dwarf pretty much all others by far..... https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

Theres so many most don't even make our news, well they obviously wouldn't be able to keep up with it.

h4rm0ny · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:28

ak22 said:
Good to see people keeping their cool

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...r-protecting-finsbury-park-suspect-from-crowd

I am very impressed by those that protected him. Especially now that I've seen the video of him taunting them as he's out in the van. It was the right thing to do to restrain him and hand him to the police though I don't think less of the people who kicked him before that. Who wouldn't react with anger and violence to someone who had just done that?

Freakbro · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:31

Tosno said:
The Portland stabbing was done by a Bernie supporter, explain how that counts as "far right" extremism?

That's scorza levels of misrepresentation.... Bravo!

He voted for Bernie because of his rabid hatred of Hilary (quite a right wing trait) and didn't trust Trump initially but came round to supporting him. But more pertinent is his oft photographed Nazi saluting, leftie baseball bat bashing forays into the public arena as well as his ranting right wing diatribes on social media

But yea, he voted for Bernie once....that totally defines the guy......

Freakbro · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:38

h4rm0ny said:
I am very impressed by those that protected him. Especially now that I've seen the video of him taunting them as he's out in the van. It was the right thing to do to restrain him and hand him to the police though I don't think less of the people who kicked him before that.

It's totally understandable in the situation

Who wouldn't react with anger and violence to someone who had just done that?

Peaceful Muslims...who would've thought it...

Tosno · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:38

Freakbro said:
That's scorza levels of misrepresentation.... Bravo!

He voted for Bernie because of his rabid hatred of Hilary (quite a right wing trait) and didn't trust Trump initially but came round to supporting him. But more pertinent is his oft photographed Nazi saluting, leftie baseball bat bashing forays into the public arena as well as his ranting right wing diatribes on social media

But yea, he voted for Bernie once....that totally defines the guy......

Freak... bra... You do realise that Bernie is a jew, right? His social media posts were idolising Bernie as a superhero and saviour. Supporting the most left wing candidate available in the election does not in any way seem right wing. Maybe we should classify this incident as left-wing extremism.

ak22 · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:40

Johno please? said:
God you remind me of Castiel.... anyone remember him? Coming to the defense of religions whenever he could.

If you want to play terrorist top trumps, Islamic inspired attacks dwarf pretty much all others by far..... https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

Theres so many most don't even make our news, well they obviously wouldn't be able to keep up with it.

Yea... because islam preaches terrorism.... Terrorism has no religion, if you actually read the Quran or speak to Iman you would learn a lot.

StriderX · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:40

Tosno said:
Freak... bra... You do realise that Bernie is a jew, right? His social media posts were idolising Bernie as a superhero and saviour. Supporting the most left wing candidate available in the election does not in any way seem right wing. Maybe we should classify this incident as left-wing extremism.

People can lie.

Amp34 · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:44

Tosno said:
That 73% figure is BS.To arrive at that figure they have to include alleged graffiti vandalism. And each "incident" is given the same weight. So the Orlando nightclub massacre and a piece of graffiti are both counted as "one" incident. The Portland stabbing was done by a Bernie supporter, explain how that counts as "far right" extremism?

I guess you missed he part where it said

resulted in deaths

So no, it wouldn't include alleged graffiti vandalism.

In fact this is what the report says about it

This appendix provides details on the violent extremist attacks in the United States based on the U.S. Extremist Crime Database (ECDB) data and as described in the background section of this report. Specifically, tables 1 and 2 show a description, date, location and number of victim fatalities for each far right and radical Islamist attack between September 12, 2001 and December 31, 2016. During this period, no persons in the United States were killed in attacks carried out by persons believed to be motivated by extremist environmental beliefs, extremist “animal liberation” beliefs, or extremist far left beliefs. The information on these attacks, including the motivations of the attackers, is from the ECDB, maintained by National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START), at the University of Maryland. START is a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Center of Excellence. The ECDB tracks violent extremist incidents in the United States since 1990. For our analysis, we included the time period from September 12, 2001 through December 31, 2016, to show violent extremist attacks that have occurred since the September 11, 2001 attacks. We assessed the reliability of this data source through review of database documentation and interviews with the ECDB principle investigators. We discussed cases with the ECDB investigators to clarify details as needed. We determined that this data source was sufficiently reliable for providing background information on the problem of violent extremism in the United States, including the number of attacks and fatalities by ideological motivation (far right or radical Islamist), year and location.

Far right violent extremist attackers are characterized by ECDB as having beliefs that include some or all of the following:

Fiercely nationalistic (as opposed to universal and international in orientation);

Anti-global;

Suspicious of centralized federal authority;

Reverent of individual liberty (especially right to own guns; be free of taxes);

Belief in conspiracy theories that involve a grave threat to national sovereignty and/or personal liberty;

Belief that one’s personal and/or national “way of life” is under attack and is either already lost or that the threat is imminent; and

Belief in the need to be prepared for an attack either by participating in or supporting the need for paramilitary preparations and training or survivalism.

In addition, according to the ECDB, many persons having violent extreme far right views express support for some version of white supremacy, the Ku Klux Klan, and neo-Nazism.

It also goes on to discuss what it defines as Islamic extremism.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf#page33

And asfor the spurious claim the Portland stabbed was a Bernie supporter....

He held extremist views, posting neo-Nazi, antisemitic, and far-right material on social media,[28][29] as well as material indicating an affinity for political violence.[10] Christian described himself as a white nationalist.[30] The Oregonian noted that Christian made many contradictory Facebook posts, but that such contradictions are typical of extremists; his posts "reveal a comic book collector with nebulous political affiliations who above all else seemed to hate circumcision and Hillary Clinton". He at times expressed support for Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, although he wrote that he did not vote.

So he was as much a trump supporter as Bernie supporter then?

And that doesn't really negate the fact he was a neonazi white nationalist that posted far right material on Facebook.

Johno please? said:
God you remind me of Castiel.... anyone remember him? Coming to the defense of religions whenever he could.

If you want to play terrorist top trumps, Islamic inspired attacks dwarf pretty much all others by far..... https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

Theres so many most don't even make our news, well they obviously wouldn't be able to keep up with it.

Not in the slightest. I'm not trying to defend any religion, rather im not interested in perpetuation people's blinkered views that seem to be as much based on religious and nationalistic bias as anything real.

Extremism is extremism, I don't care if it's Islamic or right (or left) or any other type. It should all be dealt with in the same way. Persecuting a group of people because they follow something similar should be stamped on and criticized wherever its seen. thays what many are doing on this forum, and then they completely ignore the hypocrisy of their actions when another non Islamic terrorist does something.

VincentHanna · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:46

Johno please? said:
God you remind me of Castiel.... anyone remember him? Coming to the defense of religions whenever he could.

If you want to play terrorist top trumps, Islamic inspired attacks dwarf pretty much all others by far..... https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

Theres so many most don't even make our news, well they obviously wouldn't be able to keep up with it.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the site you linked to isn't exactly impartial compared with an organisation like the BBC.

But then people will just parrot that the MSM are the ones who post the fake news and 'thereligionofpeace.com' is telling the real truth that the MSM don't want you to know.

Never mind that 80% of the MSM tend to bash Muslims whenever possible.

Freakbro · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:51

Amp34 said:
And that doesn't really negate the fact he was a neonazi white nationalist that posted far right material on Facebook.

I'm thinking the stuff he posted maybe doesn't seem so extreme to some people

Tosno · 19 Jun 2017 at 23:59

Freakbro said:
I'm thinking the stuff he posted maybe doesn't seem so extreme to some people

https://www.infowars.com/white-supr...upporter-threatened-to-kill-trump-supporters/ Looking at his posts that doesn't seem to be an accurate picture. He was a Bernie supporter who got very upset that Bernie got knocked out and he had no choice between the two remaining candidates. When it's Bernie or nothing, I fail to see how he counts as a Trump supporter. He was a supporter of the most radical left candidate and he also liked Ralph Nader who was the most radical left candidate before Bernie.

dowie · 20 Jun 2017 at 00:02

ak22 said:
Yea... because islam preaches terrorism.... Terrorism has no religion, if you actually read the Quran or speak to Iman you would learn a lot.

depends on which imams or clerics you talk to and how you interpret the Quran... it isn't like there is one universal agreed upon version of Islam