Theresa may calls for tighter internet regulations after London attack

Has this been mentioned yet?

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40326544

A European Parliament committee is proposing that end-to-end encryption be enforced on all forms of digital communications to protect citizens.

The draft legislation seeks to protect sensitive personal data from hacking and government surveillance.

EU citizens are entitled to personal privacy and this extends to online communications, the proposal argues.

A ban on "backdoors" into encrypted messaging apps like WhatsApp and Telegram is also being considered.

If that is indeed passed then it's going to be an interesting time for May, even if we have a hard Brexit.

Organisations like Whatsapp would have to provide a two tier system where one version of their app is backdoored and one version not. How that could possibly work in international instances will be interesting... It would also be interesting to see what the security stopping Brits downloading the non backdoored version would be - just the current simple App/play Store choice of which country it's registered to?
 
Has this been mentioned yet?

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40326544



If that is indeed passed then it's going to be an interesting time for May, even if we have a hard Brexit.

Organisations like Whatsapp would have to provide a two tier system where one version of their app is backdoored and one version not. How that could possibly work in international instances will be interesting... It would also be interesting to see what the security stopping Brits downloading the non backdoored version would be - just the current simple App/play Store choice of which country it's registered to?
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/30893257/

I wonder if companies like whatsapp are popular enough to swing a vote(SOPA for example was largely held back by all the internet companies acting against it). I would doubt they'd want to pay to support two versions.
 
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/30893257/

I wonder if companies like whatsapp are popular enough to swing a vote(SOPA for example was largely held back by all the internet companies acting against it). I would doubt they'd want to pay to support two versions.

It becomes a weird headache thinking about the strategy, when you imagine the U.K as some weird unencrypted island, where it's illegal for encrypted data to traverse U.K. Infrastructure

From a high level, It could have the opposite effect of generating new forms of electronic crime we haven't seen yet, perhaps people could exploit the legislation by routing traffic, services or apps through U.K. Infrastructure so they can be seen, hacked or exploited more easily.

It could make the UK a huge target for hacking and electronic exploitation
 
Surely you'd drive away most if not all technology related business? Web hosting, data centres, etc.

What about businesses in the UK that trade with other countries that mandate secure connections?
 
Basically ending up as the internet equivelant (sort of?) of a monetary tax haven, potentially ending up as pariahs of the internet world, where the only companies associating with us are those that are acting slightly dodgy.
 
It could make the UK a huge target for hacking and electronic exploitation

Make everyone walk around for a day with a t-shirt summarising their internet history/habits LOL I think society would go into meltdown as their preconceptions were torn apart.
 
Basically ending up as the internet equivelant (sort of?) of a monetary tax haven, potentially ending up as pariahs of the internet world, where the only companies associating with us are those that are acting slightly dodgy.

And of course, on top of all of that - some nutter will still manage to get in a van, drive down the pavement and kill 20 people, whilst ISIS dance around, shooting their AKs into the sky saying they were responsible.

I honestly can't see this legislation making a blind bit of positive difference to anybody, anywhere, anyhow.

I can see it making things worse, when you start to think of the bigger picture
 
If we have people on a technology based forum who don't seem to see how much of a pointless exercise it is, I don't think there's much hope in convincing the general public, to be honest.
 
If we have people on a technology based forum who don't seem to see how much of a pointless exercise it is, I don't think there's much hope in convincing the general public, to be honest.
Must admit I was surprised how some people here support it but it always good to hear alternative views.
 
It becomes a weird headache thinking about the strategy, when you imagine the U.K as some weird unencrypted island, where it's illegal for encrypted data to traverse U.K. Infrastructure
Surely you'd drive away most if not all technology related business? Web hosting, data centres, etc.
What about businesses in the UK that trade with other countries that mandate secure connections?

why the assumption that this would purely be Uk legislation and not at EU level, per the re-reposted article ?
( Brexit will not prevent us joining in, indeed can become an entry requirement for continued participation in free EU market ?)

A similar issue (could be baggaged together ?) is going to be imposing legislation against the slippery likes of 'platform' abdicator facebook to reduce propagation of hate speech etc.
The world wide military resources deployed againsst ISIS(Syria, ...) mean that this is hurting countries in the pocket maybe more than home territory terrorism and can thus
equally gain traction as manifesto line item.
 
why the assumption that this would purely be Uk legislation and not at EU level, per the re-reposted article ?
( Brexit will not prevent us joining in, indeed can become an entry requirement for continued participation in free EU market ?)
.

It's confusing because the EU seems totally conflicted, some EU countries such as France want to ban encryption, yet the EU MEPs want to outlaw it, and go one further by forcing all communications to be encrypted, with any backdoors being illegal.

It's as though there are two competing pyramids of authority, my knowledge of EU and politics isn't sufficient to know exactly how it might play out.
 
I think everyone would prefer that, however you have to consider that there have been roughly 100 deaths from terrorist attacks in this country since 11/9/2001, that's what, 6 deaths a year approx, in 2010 600 people died falling down the stairs, in the grand scheme of things horiffic as it may be Terrorists should really be the least of the average persons worries, should we really throw away civil liberties and privacy rights over something that is statistically 100 times less dangerous than a flight of stairs? That is assuming that this would prevent 100% of all deaths from terrorist attacks.

I think it's worth saying yet again that there's no evidence to support the idea that it would prevent any terrorist attacks. Communication of any kind, encrypted or not, isn't necessary for a lone wolf attack and those are far more likely than an organised conspiracy. Also, encryption algorithms aren't necessary for encrypted communication. Encryption has been used for millenia before computers existed. Also, encryption per se isn't necessary for encrypted communication. You can use steganography, which is secure even if read in plain text. And finally, no method of obscuring speech is really required - they can just talk to each other in a mosque, in a house, wherever.

If the plans of May et alia were to be carried out, it would break modern society in the UK by cutting it off from the rest of the world and break the UK economy by making it an unsafe place to do any business in. It would, for example, be outright illegal for any company in the EU to do business in the UK unless they had a completely autonomous UK division with no connection to the EU at all because the planned UK deliberate lack of security would make it illegal to expose any information about anyone in the EU to the UK. Even for countries where it wouldn't be illegal, it would be foolishly risky. If you knew your customers would all be compromised if you did business in the UK and at least some of them would be victims of fraud and harassment as a result and your business would be the conduit that they would blame for it...would you do business in the UK?

That degree of harm in exchange for the possibility of perhaps maybe saving 1 or 2 lives per year but probably not even that many if any at all. More people would die as a result of the collapse of the UK economy, so it would kill more people than it might possibly maybe have saved (which is probably nobody anyway because there's no reason to believe it would have any beneficial effect at all). The loss of money would reduce healthcare, which would kill people. It would reduce infrastucture spending, which would kill people. It would reduce health and safety as corners are cut, which would kill people. It would increase terrorism as more people have worse lives and it would increase successful terrorist attacks because of further cuts to the law enforcement methods that actually work and because analysts would be swamped with irrelevant data. Blanket surveillance is what the authorities do if they want more control over those they rule. Targetted surveillance is what they do if they want to prevent crime. Different tactics for different purposes.
 
Sorry I'll spell it out more clearly

- GCGQ/NSA can already see your encrypted content via various back doors and other methods if they so choose
- They cannot use it in court as the means they used to obtain it would be inadmissible
- I am suggesting we allow them to use this evidence

You probably noticed the news about the wannacrypt issue. That's the least bad outcome of broken security on a large scale.

If you are advocating that all security must be broken so that security services can circumvent it, you are advocating that all security must be broken. It's either secure or it isn't.
 
You probably noticed the news about the wannacrypt issue. That's the least bad outcome of broken security on a large scale.

If you are advocating that all security must be broken so that security services can circumvent it, you are advocating that all security must be broken. It's either secure or it isn't.

Yeah, but if encryption was illegal/required a backdoor then wcry would have a backdoor so it wouldn't be an issue...right? I mean, it's not like bad guys are going to carry on doing something after its made illegal! :p
 
Y
You can say 100 since 2001 or you can say (approx) 50 in last few months.

Your point about falling down the stairs is ridiculous. They have not been murdered, and no one has tried to hurt them. In more than likely nothing more could have been done to stop them falling down the stairs. More could be done to stop terrorists killing innocent people.

You could also take the manchester attack in pure isolation and say OMG 22 people will die every day due to terrorism, or take 9/11 and say we are doomed 3000 odd people are dying every day it's the most dangerous thing ever, taking short periods when looking at data is just stupid as you get statistical anomalies that hugely skew the figures we are most likely just seeing a flurry of attacks, take out the Manchester bombing and we are still talking an infinitesimal amount of deaths in the grand scheme of things.

You could outlaw all buildings above 1 story, and all stairs are to be replaced with ramps, that would guarantee a reduction of 100% of deaths by falling down stairs, removing encryption would not give any assurances of even a 1% reduction in terrorist attacks, not to mention that even if you did break the encryption there are what 23,000 odd people that are known to the authorities around terrorism, the amount of data being harvested from their communications data would be huge and require masses of sifting through and analysis, assuming these people aren't texting each other saying "we are going to blow up some kids tomorrow" which they probably aren't.

Your point about stopping the London Bridge attack by breaking encryption, I didn't realise you were privvy to the messages that the guy was sending (i guess you must be super in with the security services) from what I have seen there isn't a great deal of evidence that it was planned on whats app. Considering one of them said he wanted to be a terrorist and another was on TV being a jihaddi, not sure their whats app messages would have made a great deal of difference.

As others have said you either have broken encryption or secure encryption, there is no middle ground, there is no "oh it's only a backdoor" it's either broken for everyone or not.
 
If we have people on a technology based forum who don't seem to see how much of a pointless exercise it is, I don't think there's much hope in convincing the general public, to be honest.

Knew I should read to the end of the thread before posting pretty much this, although I'd be tempted to replace pointless exercise with terrifyingly authoritarian and moronic.

The next battleground is the Internet. Wannacry was the tiniest taste of how **** up things could go if we properly start attacking each other online. And we want to make everything less secure? Genius!! Forget a piffling bit of identify theft, how about no electricity? No bank account at all? Literally nothing to your name what so ever? No electronic proof of your existence?

Short sighted and idiotic in the extreme. We should be trying to encourage maximum security of everything we do online, not erode it away so the government can hoover up a bit more data.
 
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