Legally it's fine (the price you're charged at the till is the legally-binding one), but it wouldn't be very consumer-friendly and would just lead to more complaints.
I never installed a smart meter and I am happy I didnt
- Thread starter johnloo
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Legally it's fine (the price you're charged at the till is the legally-binding one), but it wouldn't be very consumer-friendly and would just lead to more complaints.
The article discusses what electronic price tags enable the supermarkets to do, rather than what they will do with them.
The idea that the price of a pint of milk could fluctuate throughout the day based on demand is almost certainly bogus. Electronic shelf edge labels make it possible, but not likely. Their purpose is to reduce mistakes, enable timed offers (e.g. a meal deal on sandwiches bought before 11am), and allow the retailer to react to changing conditions (e.g. tomorrow is going to be hot, so let's remove promotions on products we expect to sell out). It would also end offer cycles, and allow products the be promoted based on availability and demand.
As @Jokester pointed out, having real-time pricing is tricky under current legislation, and such a system would affect trust. Who wants to go to a shop where you've got no idea how much your spending until you get to the till?
The idea that the price of a pint of milk could fluctuate throughout the day based on demand is almost certainly bogus. Electronic shelf edge labels make it possible, but not likely. Their purpose is to reduce mistakes, enable timed offers (e.g. a meal deal on sandwiches bought before 11am), and allow the retailer to react to changing conditions (e.g. tomorrow is going to be hot, so let's remove promotions on products we expect to sell out). It would also end offer cycles, and allow products the be promoted based on availability and demand.
As @Jokester pointed out, having real-time pricing is tricky under current legislation, and such a system would affect trust. Who wants to go to a shop where you've got no idea how much your spending until you get to the till?
Not the case.
At present, retailers have a responsibility to ensure pricing is accurate and up-to-date. In the event that incorrect pricing is displayed, the retailer has two choices:
1. Honor the mistake for that customer and any other customers who may have selected the product based on the incorrect price.
2. Remove the product from sale until the next trading day. The mistake must be corrected before the product returns to sale.
If you've got prices that change in real-time, that's going to be exceptionally difficult to manage.
If you've got an offer like the quoted M&S sandwich deal, that's easy to manage. You just ensure there's signage specifying that the offer ends daily at 11am. Any customer that proceed through checkout after 10:59:59 have already been informed that they're being charged the higher price.
i did say
LOL at OP, what utter rubbish you talk.
not only does it say normal tariff will remain, this is a great thing and needs to happen, and us customers can make a huge saving by changing some extremely basic habits that take no effort or thought and is something we are currently blocked out from by the government, because they deem us to stupid to understand it.
as Evs get more popular, you will really like extra cheap night rates to charge that currently aren't available to consumers. Smart appliances live freezers can also switch off at peak times and have no effect on the freezers performance. This also means that we need less peak power plants which cost an insane amount of money and maybe on fired up a few hours a year. Essentially everything you wrote in OP is rubbish and lacks understanding.
not only does it say normal tariff will remain, this is a great thing and needs to happen, and us customers can make a huge saving by changing some extremely basic habits that take no effort or thought and is something we are currently blocked out from by the government, because they deem us to stupid to understand it.
as Evs get more popular, you will really like extra cheap night rates to charge that currently aren't available to consumers. Smart appliances live freezers can also switch off at peak times and have no effect on the freezers performance. This also means that we need less peak power plants which cost an insane amount of money and maybe on fired up a few hours a year. Essentially everything you wrote in OP is rubbish and lacks understanding.
That was not the article I read, and if you think they will not raise prices then good luck. The whole smart meter is not for you to benefit but for large utility companies to control and max profits.
And changing habits while at work, you really have not thought of the implications this has, are you going to change your cooking habits when you get back for work? are you going to have your breakfast at 5am go back to bed and wake yup at 7 am to go to work?
i have and so have all the experts, it is you who clearly have no idea. Do some research into peaker plants and the laws that ban us consumer taking advantage of super cheap rates.
This post is based on what legislation?
In response to the OP, I don't see the issue; provided the prices/times are clearly advertised when you sign up, it's no different to an economy 7 tariff.
Besides, I imagine the market would dictate that at least some suppliers still offer a traditional tariff
Come back to me in 4 years and see if your view is the same.
such a non existent argument, have you got any clue about smart grid how the grid needs balancing, peaker plants and that you are so wrong its not even the industry pushing smart meters but the government. Did you know adding a million Evs that charge at night would make the national grid more stable and less wasteful
just admit you opening post was scaremongering due to a total lack of knowledge.
Has an open standard for smart meters been created?
not yet. but that's not what he was talking in the OP. he was talking about tiered pricing linked to demand, which is vital to a smart grid, decommissioning peaker plants and making the grid more efficient.
edit - seems they are finally fixing the issue, not that it stopped you switching, you would just have to go back to manual readings.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...If-energy-providers-need-new-smart-meter.html
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I'm certainly not against smart meters and the potential efficiency savings a range of Internet Of Things measurements could bring to the country and business.
I believe where we are at now with this sort of technology is reminiscent of early stage proprietary computer networking, it's horrible, expensive and doesn't even perform the functions people are expecting it to.
Like the internet and other networking standards, this needs open standardisation, sensible regulation and the data should be commons owned by the country/government.
Recording every citizen connection to the internet with zero oversight is a horrible joke of legislation/investment, meanwhile creating a system for efficiency improvement and measurements as you have mentioned (and tangentially city utility planning and a range of other areas) could be created and given sensible oversight.
Taking doing that out of the hands of a bunch of vested interests (billing companies mostly) who will never do what is required and will attempt only to maximise their profits individually, is the only way I see anything like what is required happening!
There is absolutely no legislation forcing retailers to act in the manner I suggested. But doing so keeps them on the right side of "Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008" and "Price Marking Order 2004" as enforced by Trading Standards. It's a policy followed by many major retailers as it's the best way to protect themselves from prosecution.
Retailers have zero obligation to sell mispriced products, but they do have an obligation to not mislead their customers. Pricing must be accurate, clearly legible, unambiguous, in Sterling, inclusive of VAT and any other taxes, and must be found close to the product.
In the case of real-time pricing that fluctuates throughout the day based on supply/demand, that would come in to direct conflict with the requirement to not mislead consumers. If someone picks up a bottle of milk marked at £1 on the shelf, and by the time they've got to the till the price has changed to £1.20, the business has mislead that consumer.
Caporegime
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smart meters should have been standardised by now. why aren't people pushing for this?
How exactly would you push for it. People refusing them fitted i suppose will get the point across.
I'm not having one until it becomes convenient for me to have one. They will eventually force people to have them, if not directly they will just have expensive non smart meter tariffs.
Caporegime
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it should be in the newspapers. the government is funding this programme and it's a complete waste of taxpayers money why aren't the MP's involved being held responsible? until their is a standardised version each one installed is going to need replacing. no doubt whoever own the company in charge of installation is good mates with multiple Tory MP's.
should be complaining to watchdog, etc.
Smart meters are constantly being improved. However, there's no guarantee you'll get the latest hardware version, as they still want to fit the 'older models' as they've been 'bought and paid for'. Firmware can be update over the air, but if it fails it will require a visit to change hardware.
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I have refused a smart meter install, I already have a power meter to monitor total usage and dont need one talking directly back to supplier.
Do these smart meters also provide supply control to the operator, ie can your supply be suspended remotely?
Do these smart meters also provide supply control to the operator, ie can your supply be suspended remotely?