I think it's right that people in leadership roles are held accountable for their actions, rather than being able to disperse that responsibility through an organisation. If you don't want to potentially be held personally responsible for decisions you make, then don't accept a promotion into a position of responsibility.
Hillsborough inquest verdict.
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But the organization also has a requirement to make sure that a person is properly prepared, trained, and supported when taking a step up in assuming a new responsibility. While the people like Duckenfield who make bad decisions that lead to the loss of life are not the victims of these tragedies I expect his life has never been the same since the tragedy and he has to a large extent be made to pay for what his bad decisions caused... I'm really not sure if an attempt to get him to do time in jail is really necessary.
You are kidding right, why do you think it's not necessary to do jail time.
The only way to quash it would be another inquest because this inquest declared the police responsible for the deaths and the deaths to be unlawful.
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What good would that do ?
It smacks of revenge to me, nothing more, to pacify the victim's families someone must pay.
The tragedy was the result of many, unconnected events, **** ups, and hastily made judgement calls.
Should the architect that devised the suicidally narrow tunnel entrance/exits into the pens be prosecuted too maybe ?
Would you not think it sends a message that no one is above the law, not even the police, and no matter what the time scale is someone has to pay for their errors that people died going to a football match and never came home.
Considering the existence of the ipcc I think they're aware of that...
What about the subsequent cover up?
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I don't know this case at all but has a charge of corporate manslaughter ever been pursued against the police as a whole, or the football club? It's one of the charges I expect to see pursued against the Borough Council in relation to Grenfell if wrongdoing is identified, just seems strange if this hasn't happened for Hillsborough.
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I totally agree but that was then.. I remember how **** football control was back then.. I just accepted it because I [or we] didn't know any different. We could argue the person who instructed the erection of the pitch fences be prosecuted etc.. I strongly believe that Hillsborough is pivotal in the development of modern society, not just in Football but in society in general. It opened everyone's eye's that actually, things need to change.
I would like to add, i'm totally in favour of those that covered up the story having maximum sentences.
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At least as a consequence of this we have learned that public enquiries where life has been lost should conform to the perception of justice from the perspective of the victim's family. Might as well cut out the middle man, save many years of time and money and just let the 'justice groups' write the main findings and conclusions themselves. I expect Grenfell to take this approach.
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I'll be honest and say I have very little time for anyone who tries to pervert the course of justice. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect jail time if those charged with that offence are convicted.
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I think most are arguing against the manslaughter charges, I think all are probably in agreement that those involved in the cover up i.e. perverting the course of justice should face trial.
I think it sends a message that the police are an easier target.
The police didn't create the problems. They did fail to find a solution, but they didn't create the problems.
1) The stadium did not have a safety license and hadn't had for several years. So why was the match allocated there at all? Why aren't the club and the FA being prosecuted for gross negligence manslaughter - they should have known that it was unsafe to have the match there. The club especially, since they were at the stadium very frequently and thus in the best position to know it was unsafe, but also the FA because they should have known it hadn't had a safety certificate for years.
2) The pen had an actual capacity of ~1600 and an official capacity of ~2200. That's negligent in itself, since the official capacity should have been changed, but the problem was much worse because ~3000 people were in there. How did they all get tickets for that? Did they all have tickets? FA and club again and particularly the club again if all the people did have tickets.
3) It was already known that the entire penning system was unsafe - this wasn't the first time people had been crushed in a pen. It wasn't even the first time at that stadium. FA for this problem.
4) The kickoff wasn't delayed even though the police asked for it to be so they had more time to deal with the dangerous overcrowding outside the club. Is that the club's fault or the FA's fault? It's certainly not the police's fault.
5) The whole approach to the stands from outside was far too small. Could be the club's fault. Could be the local council's fault if planning permission was sought and denied. Could be hooligans' fault because the requirement to keep the opposing teams' supporters apart was a big factor. But not the police's fault.
The main mistake the police made in crowd control was opening the main exit from those stands as an entrance in order to stop people being crushed outside the stadium, assuming that there was enough space inside the stadium for all the people who supposedly had tickets for that area of the stadium. If they hadn't, people would probably have been killed outside the stadium and we'd be in the same position we are now.
I think the club and possibly the FA were more negligent than the police, but the police are an easier target. The club is now legally a different entity and thus can't be prosecuted.
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What action taken against those in the crowd, pushing and shoving who ultimately caused the injuries and deaths?
None. But if you look back to the beginning of the thread I received a lambasting and had multiple posts deleted for suggesting that some of the crowd had almost certainly contributed to the disaster.
Because I didn't jump on the bandwagon of labelling the police as murderers I was branded as a troll.
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