TIDAL: Oh my

[Bassmansam]

I would have considered this about ten years ago but my hearing has notably worsened from attending gigs/clubs over the past ten years and now i struggle to hear the differences with high res audio. Funnily enough all those people blasting out music in there phones are doing the same thing.

 

[signs]

I would have considered this about ten years ago but my hearing has notably worsened from attending gigs/clubs over the past ten years and now i struggle to hear the differences with high res audio. Funnily enough all those people blasting out music in there phones are doing the same thing.

regarding your hearing, isn't it better to listen to quality music at a lesser rate than poor quality music at a lesser rate ?

 

[Bassmansam]

regarding your hearing, isn't it better to listen to quality music at a lesser rate than poor quality music at a lesser rate ?

I can't tell the difference.

 

[9designs2]

I don't see how? CD's aren't that expensive. Usually get brand new ones in HMV 2 for £15. older stuff is 2 for £10, etc.

£20 a month IMO is extortionate. For £20 a month I could get Netflix, Prime and Spotify or Tidal on it's own. Doesn't seem like good value for money IMO. I also find it crazy that audio is more expensive than video (that has audio combined). e.g. Netflix is £8 a month and Tidal (audio only) is £20.

Perhaps you just bad at maths ?

I would estimate the wife and I would choose on average two "new" albums a week, plus play ones we currently like for a week or two till bored of it. Then use some of the playlists that have been put up. I will also try out any new albums I plan to buy on vinyl, to save an expensive mistake, plus it gives me a digital version for casual/convenient listening of the ones I've bought without having to download some crappy mp3 from the card included inside, if it has one.

That's easily 60 quid a month, plus not having to own the disc for life. So as time goes on my £20 a month translates into hundreds and thousands of albums I've listen too, as opposed to only 10's I would have owned If I bough CD's.

Film is subsidised by box office revenue and advertising.

 

[jpaul]

I would not dispute the avoiding expensive mistakes argument, but the delta price of tidal hifi/flac versus spotify 320vorbis, you could have more money in your pocket ?

It is a pity good quality high def tracks do not seem widely available for purchase, personally that could replace vinyl, and Vinyl purchases too, can be a gamble, with some poor masterings.
I have digitized some of my vinyl and that makes it very conveniant and imhop preserves the vinyl sound.

I think the entertainment value of a tidal or spotify subscription exceeds a netflix/nowtv subscription with their limited catalogue, you cannot always find something
engaging on the latter (favourites not there) but never bored with tidal/spotify.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I will also try out any new albums I plan to buy on vinyl, to save an expensive mistake,

what's wrong with youtube?

 

[9designs2]

Tidal is also integrated seamlessly info my streamers architecture so for me it also has a convenience factor. Nothing replaces vinyl it has a unique sound, I buy it to play it and enjoy the experience.
For sure you could/can sample something new via the likes of you tube on a PC/tablet etc, but to play an album regular ? I'd rather stream a decent quality flac file from the likes of Tidal.
Each to their own.

 

[jpaul]

what's wrong with youtube?

you need a strategy in utube to find the good uploads (& reliable uploaders), there are often so many duplicates and some are terrible SQ, even for preview
for later purchase.
(I do some triage with firefox add-ins where you can select the opus codecs with 140kb/s, utube got rid of all good stuff 191kb/s aac)

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Tidal is also integrated seamlessly info my streamers architecture so for me it also has a convenience factor. Nothing replaces vinyl it has a unique sound, I buy it to play it and enjoy the experience.
For sure you could/can sample something new via the likes of you tube on a PC/tablet etc, but to play an album regular ? I'd rather stream a decent quality flac file from the likes of Tidal.
Each to their own.

i'm not saying it's wrong to buy quality. in fact i probably have about £3K worth of headphones and gear, that excludes my home cinema setups, etc. purely headphones, DAC's and AMP's.

I also mainly listen to CD's in the car which I buy from HMV on offer. i also listen to DAB radio in the car. my car speaker system again was probably a £2.5K option and i have spent a further £1K upgrading it.

Youtube is fine for listening to stuff to see if you like it or not. I just don't think Tidal is worth £20 a month when Spotify is a fiver. I then also could compare it to Prime that has music, video, 1 day delivery, etc all for £5 a month. I buy maybe 4 cd's every 6 months. I then have amazon prime, DAB radio, youtube, etc for listening to anything else i may fancy.

Someone has made a Spotify player you can install on your PC which plays it in an even higher quality. I think it decodes it using it a much better way for SQ. I have never listened to Tidal and I can notice the difference between CD and DAB radio very easily which in itself is a huge step up from normal radio. Vinyl IMO is a gimmick. It's a natural analogue source which sounds more pleasing to the ear, however it's such a PITA to use in a modern world I'd much rather listen to a CD played through a TUBE DAC or TUBE AMP or both. Tubes give the digital media that natural analogue sound by colouring it slightly.

 

[tom_nieto]

I also mainly listen to CD's in the car which
Vinyl IMO is a gimmick. It's a natural analogue source which sounds more pleasing to the ear, however it's such a PITA to use in a modern world I'd much rather listen to a CD played through a TUBE DAC or TUBE AMP or both. Tubes give the digital media that natural analogue sound by colouring it slightly.

Disagree. Vinyl is a much more special experience, it's a way nicer process of playing music (more tactile, can see the disc) and the sound is really natural. I have far more CDs than LPs and my CD player sounds better, but there is something quite special about playing vinyl. It's no more of a faff than playing a CD (apart from turning it over once)... if convenience is really important nothing can beat Spotify, however the satisfaction of browsing through a library is lost and I find my listening practices can become very lazy (same songs and playlists over and over). Thanks goodness for the discover tab!

What I do dislike is the outrageous prices of LPs in the shops and those that have been re-issued at huge markup and pressed from the CD version.

 

[FrankJH]

I think the entertainment value of a tidal or spotify subscription exceeds a netflix/nowtv subscription with their limited catalogue, you cannot always find something
engaging on the latter (favourites not there) but never bored with tidal/spotify.

I whole heartedly disagree with this only because of the difference in cost. £7 / month for nowtv is much better value than £20 / month for tidal

(I used to believe in Tidal, and was happy to pay for the highest quality sub - until they started to delete a lot of my favourite albums (from the 80's and later) and at that point the hi res offering was diabolical
I also got annoyed where they would advertise albums, and I mean even ones by solo artists, yet they would be missing tracks - and tracks that were on the album when I bought the cd back in the day.

After several years of being an avid user - I had about 60 -70 playlists, but at the end nearly every one had multiple (different) tracks missing. )

When I was a kid I was approaching nearly 1000 cd albums so Ive got a pretty varied taste, but have to admit Im not that into current releases now Im in my late 40's so that might be a big perceptible difference in how good the service is or not.

For a third of the cost a month, I can live with tv shows lasting less time on the nowTV site, and while there are only a few really top quality shows a year (Madam Secretary, GoT, NewsRoom and a few others) I chop and change between NowTV and netflix every few months to see whats appared on the other site and that seems to be a pretty reasonable way of doing it.

Disagree. Vinyl is a much more special experience, it's a way nicer process of playing music .

Vinyl is definitely a bigger faff.....dont get me wrong it may well be a better "feeling" , but its a bigger faff. Apart from the vast increase in storage space required for vinyl, the money you still need to spend and time taken to really get a record player sounding right not to mention you need to be very careful with the arm / stylus

You may well only be able to get 70-75% of the quality of sound (or feeling) of a vinyl set up with even the best cd based systems, but its very easy to get there and keep it running as though its brand new, with a vinyl setup its ever smaller rates of return on your investment to get it better and the upkeep is ongoing.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Those that like vinyl really need to get a tube dac or tube amp or both and experience them. It makes digital music come alive. Vinyl is just so expensive and so much faff it's really for people who want to be part of the experience or nostalgic. It's not better in terms of quality but it is natural which is more pleasant to the human ear. That's why using tubes which provides a natural sound is the way to go IMO. It can make even YouTube sound amazing

 

[jpaul]

I think the entertainment value of a tidal or spotify subscription exceeds a netflix/nowtv subscription with their limited catalogue, you cannot always find something
engaging on the latter (favourites not there) but never bored with tidal/spotify.

I whole heartedly disagree with this only because of the difference in cost. £7 / month for nowtv is much better value than £20 / month for tidal

I meant value of a streaming music subscription per se, I agree tidal at £20 is too much and when spotify release the same flac service Tidal prices will tumble (if they are still afloat) and many of the albums are just as good anyway on spotifty 320Kb/s.
(badge of honour) I have payed <£2.50 for nowtv entertainment(ebay) for last 6 months - which is about what is worth maybe 8hours of programs per month.
Although the tidal catalogue maybe deficient, the movie services are even more so eg. I cannot just say I want to watch say TheAbyss again, or series 3 of Braquo, it is not A la volonté

I wonder if the whole streaming services is due for a shake up - the large artists negotiate good deals and can hold the streamers at ransom, but the smaller artists,
although they perhaps, overvalue their product, do not get large royalties (programme on R4 a month back)
what you said about missing tracks is another symptom.

Edit : incidentally tidal catalogue in the USA is different to UK - have not yet figured out which is better, some converted playlists come up with blanks.

 

[9designs2]

Qobuz I see is the same prices as Tidal, not tried it to see if it's any better.
While there may be other cheaper ways to sample and stream music for me he easy and integration that gives me huge album collection by a couple of clicks on an iPad and the album of choices is playing in the chosen room is a service worth paying for, at "CD quality".
It's also a set up the wife can and does use without getting all nerdy and techie over it.

If you only want background music or while around the house, vinyl is way less convenient obviously, but if your sitting down to relax and listen to some music it's not a faff. Putting a CD would similar "faff in that case" Not that I have CD player plugged in anymore.

Sound wise I don't need valves to fudge my sound, be on vinyl or streamed from my NAS it's very musical and natural. Valves are a faff, requiring replacement after certain amount of use, needing to be warmed up and fussy with speaker matching. Well played vinyl isn't all warm, fuzzy and coloured as the myths may suggest. It can be clean, crisp and dynamic but seems to have more of a flow and realism to it.
For sure a modern recording that were mixed for CD and plonk on slab of heavy weight vinyl doesn't make good use of the medium. Classic old albums or ones where they have made an effort to get the most out analogue can sound great.
Can't deny the fact that a good TT does end up requiring heavy investment, but then so does a good digital front end. If you're not prepared to do that, stick with digital. But then if you run a Ferrari you wouldn't be grumbling about the price of fuel and sticking 95 RON in it !!!

 

[FrankJH]

I meant value of a streaming music subscription per se

that makes even less sense - one is primarily a music service, the other is primarily a tv service - so you arent even comparing like to like.

either way it really depends if your priority is music or tv - and as you appear to like music much more, i hope this continues for you

t.

If you only want background music or while around the house, vinyl is way less convenient obviously, but if your sitting down to relax and listen to some music it's not a faff. Putting a CD would similar "faff in that case"

I dopnt know how you can actually argue this point with a straight face.

Vinyl isnt "difficult" by any means but a regular user has to be way more careful with a record than with a cd, in usage (as I said earlier, being careful with the stylus etc ), in storage and even in preparing for playback (a lot of vinyl users I know use a cloth to wipe down the disc before each and every use) - compared to even the most average cd player, dusting the disc will not make a jot of difference to playback or the player, and just pressing play on the deck or remote will cause most cd drawers to retract and start playing.

Without even considering the storage size of any collection being approximately 6 * the size on vinyl

 

[9designs2]

Vinyl to me is second nature, as I grew up when it was the only option. So I have a routine and practice that for me is simple.
All new purchase get put straight in a poly sleeve if they didn't have one. I don't wipe or clean a record, does more harm than good. What I do have is a proper cleaning wet vac machine for cleaning second hand purchase or if I get a dirty new one. Once done rarely needs doing again with good storage. Occasional stylus cleaning. It's no more than checking the levels on your car and looking after that, part of enjoying the hobby.
A dirty record goes "click" or "pop" a dirty CD goes . " d d d d d d d d d " and gets stuck.
With ripping to NAS these days it makes a CD player pointless and inferior way to play digital music. Ironically streaming and vinyl make great partners in a system.

 

[FrankJH]

a dirty CD does not do that, a dirty cd doesnt even get noticed (unless there is something majorly stuck on the surface).

What your describing is more likely to be a faulty cd

whether its 2nd nature or not - ease of use goes to the CD format by miles.

 

[jpaul]

you are right the tidal selection seems a bit of a joke, as an example
this (white) was what was available from what was recommended as one of Carly Simon's best compilations - it is like the Pythons cheese shop sketch.
- but you can listen to endless jay-z/beyonce - whoever they are.
(the absence of any history of what you listened to in tidal remains a frustration too - you find something good and cannot find it again)