Should we abolish student fees?
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I know the thread is about the fees, and hopefully there is a suggestoin of how to pay for that.
In the article though, quotes like this are why people need a bit more education on student debts:
https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/882580965641637888
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes
In the article though, quotes like this are why people need a bit more education on student debts:
https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/882580965641637888
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes
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The current system incentivises those degrees because people take the loans knowing they'll never pay them off, whereas chances are I will pay off my entire loan because I'll earn a decent salary. It does the opposite of what it should.
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
That is one reason why I went more specialist with interactive Media Development vs CS at BSc level; however, I'm still debating generalising in CS at Masters level or specialising in Child Computer Interaction.
Soldato
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Paying 9k a year for some of these courses though is just blatant robbery, an unbelievable lack of value for money. Half of these courses you are barely in the University... How many hrs per week is time spent within the facilities?
I stick to what I feel, free higher education but a lot more emphasis on being good/elite/motivated in the area you want to study and a lot more emphasis on areas that will benefit the good of the country (medical/sciences/engineering etc)
It gets complicated when it's people that just have a passion for say literature, what happens then...? Thats where I find it difficult to say its still free, someone doing well in life and just doing a subject for sheer self satisfaction... very complicated
I stick to what I feel, free higher education but a lot more emphasis on being good/elite/motivated in the area you want to study and a lot more emphasis on areas that will benefit the good of the country (medical/sciences/engineering etc)
It gets complicated when it's people that just have a passion for say literature, what happens then...? Thats where I find it difficult to say its still free, someone doing well in life and just doing a subject for sheer self satisfaction... very complicated
Imo whether you pass/finish your course should be taken into account, e.g. if you get a first it costs you nothing, a 2:1 you only pay back 25%, a 2:2 50%, a 3rd 75% and if you fail/drop out you have to pay back the lot, could help weed out some of those who just see it as an excuse to party for free at the expense of the taxpayer for 3 years.
Figures obviously just pulled out of the air as an example
Figures obviously just pulled out of the air as an example
I think that is massively simplistic, it also shows the state of the job market...
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
I can't see that working nor being all that fair... I have met numerous people that developed mental disorder during their degrees which subsequently got lower marks as a result of this. Or how about those that have parents that earn £500k per annum and yet still go for loans for their degree in philosophy etc...
A subject system would make far more sense...
Soldato
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indeed, unfortunately we have the 3 generations split at the moment:
1st generation didn't go to uni because that was something only the really rich could afford, so they did apprenticeships and went to technical college and ended up working their whole lives in a decent enough job.
2nd generation did go to uni because they got free fees, and were the ones who still got decent jobs before the eventual explosion of the mickey mouse degree meant that people didnt think degrees were worth much because you could get one pretty easily and for free, so they brought in the fees system.
3rd generation has to pay fees to go to uni, but is emerging into a jobs market where lets be realistic here the majority of decent jobs require degree and higher level because it's become the de-facto standard, and are quite righteously ****** that they're wallowing around with thousands worth of debt when the folk from generations 1 and 2 were either several years in a career or in the same situation minus the debt.
what there needs to be is instead of charging fees, there needs to be more focus on schools being open with people when they apply for university about what their future will hold based on their chosen subject.
Soldato
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Forget graduates, this country hasn't turned out anywhere near enough technician apprentices in decades. You, know the people who maintain and fault find the stuff that all these degree qualified engineers design.
Not great for Biomedical Science degrees either ( Blood + Urine sample testing, etc). Most/ All UK IBMS accredited degrees lack enough practical elements to fulfill the required experience for even the low level tiers, meaning either applying alongside 10000s of others for placement schemes or further research degrees + more loans.
There's a shortage of engineers in this country as a whole. I think there should be incentives for doing well, perhaps student that achieve 65% and above in a technical or useful degree could have their fees slashed by half or be given a non repayable grant.
What if the psychology grad failed and the law grad got a first?
I don't remember mentioning pre-university grades, and I would equally be surprised if you could find degrees with entry requirements that low...
Also, both Psychology and Law are useful degrees.
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TIL what STEM degrees were. I thought it was related to stem cell degrees and such. Wondered why they were always touted as special for whatever reason.
FWIW, yes I think they should be abolished for decent degrees, Mickey Mouse degrees? No chance, you pay for those.
FWIW, yes I think they should be abolished for decent degrees, Mickey Mouse degrees? No chance, you pay for those.
Exactly....
And A subject system? Why? There are basically no subjects which are definitely a waste of time, and there are very few subjects where the courses are definitely not a waste of time .... No, how about Parasychology (derby + Greenwich both offer it), Surfing Studies (Plymouth). Or those that go to university "for the experience", do well in a pointless (or even useful subject), but don't have any intention of working?
How about Parasychology (derby + Greenwich both offer it), Surfing Studies (Plymouth)?
Soldato
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Drop them to 3 grand a year. Shows some level of commitment.
That or you could adjust the amount depending on what course is taken. i.e where there is a skill shortage, cheaper fees. Some people would say that is unfair, but it would be in the best interest of the country.
Far better than it is now.
That or you could adjust the amount depending on what course is taken. i.e where there is a skill shortage, cheaper fees. Some people would say that is unfair, but it would be in the best interest of the country.
Far better than it is now.
Why are they more important than the person that collects your rubbish, the person that builds your infrastructure and the person that finds and helps generate the energy you need to heat your home and allow your vehicle to get to work?
That's my issue with differentiating STEM subjects from other subjects*. We need people that have studied psychology, law and other disciplines to function as a modern society so why should we make them pay for it too - unless we argue university should have a capitalist supply/demand part to it?