NHS holds on to top spot in healthcare survey

[Pawnless Endgame]

It's just more propaganda telling us Proles to back the establishment.

Me (UK) = 2 to 3 weeks to get a GP appointment

My 2 German friends (who I speak to nearly every day on Skype) = same day GP appointments

 

[Trifid]

The details are not really that relevant, unless you are trying to justify poor outcomes. Outcomes should be the focus of everything that is done.

There are two key questions that should be considered separately.
1) would we benefit from spending more money on healthcare?
2) would we benefit from spending more money on the NHS?

I do believe we could benefit from spending more money on healthcare overall. What I don't believe, based on what happened when we did it before, is that we would benefit by simply throwing money at the NHS.

Reforming the NHS would allow us to spend more on healthcare and improve outcomes, simply spending more on the NHS as is will not.

The details are relevant as your initial post is misleading and every time I pull you up on it. Yet you post it again in the next NHS budget thread. Why? You know better than this.

I see we have a common ground, I too believe in targeted additional spending on the NHS rather than a complete blanket budget increases as this will provide the best outcomes. Blanket 'NHS reforms' is too generic of a term, however how I would run the NHS is different from how it is run at the moment (and I can go into detail if you are interested). But is a blanket budget increase also required? Yes. Healthcare costs go up faster than inflation. Drugs are expensive and getting more so. New procedures are more complicated. More IT systems are desired to provide better and faster access to information. The expectation of time spent on patients by nurses and doctors increases. Our population increases and the proportion of them being older increases further and they all need access to healthcare. And finally, staff pay needs to increase, at least in line with average wage growth. It needs to increase to attract more home grown recruitment as well as attract those from other countries, the stats clearly speak for themselves on this.

 

[dowie]

Just to remind everyone how good we have it:

yeah but you guys have fewer chavs/healthier lifestyles than the UK and an insurance/govt combined system where a bit more is spent per person and private companies provide a lot of the care

if the UK govt so much as hinted at wanting to move closer towards the sort of system you've got in Australia there would be outrage at them 'destroying the NHS' etc..

 

[V F]

Of course it comes top. It's become taboo to bash it, so people just continue to fawn over it.

yeah but you guys have fewer chavs/healthier lifestyles than the UK and an insurance/govt combined system where a bit more is spent per person and private companies provide a lot of the care

if the UK govt so much as hinted at wanting to move closer towards the sort of system you've got in Australia there would be outrage at them 'destroying the NHS' etc..

I don't understand this country at times same goes for America and their healthcare. Yet both go on like all there is to the meaning of life is a healthcare system as if it was the cup of Christ. Indiana Jones style.

Dare question it, criticise it or not care about it and you end up getting a deeply offended lynch mob. I really do not understand it.


@dowie What happens in Australia that makes their lifestyles healthier?

 

[Glaucus]

snip

life expectancy is a poor outcome to look at.
you are better looking at diseases that are easily preventable or treated. As well outcomes of "minor" treatments that can leave people in pain or disabled. That we score poorly in with most developed countries beating us easily. We do a few things well like vaccines and strokes. But very poorly in many different areas.

what tories is doing isnt right, labour throwing more money at it helps but doesn't treat the issues and isn't targeted.

Its time we had a proper discussion of the NHS and what we can and cant afford and how best to tackle its obvious shortcomings which even in the glowing reports like the OPs has massive issues if you ignore the headlines and read further on. Unfortunately the public are to stupid and as such parliament doesn't want t touch it a meaningful way.

 

[Uther]

I'd be dead without the NHS.
My wife would be dead without the NHS.
My son would be dead without the NHS.
It's probably the best thing this country has ever done for its population.

 

[Glaucus]

I'd be dead without the NHS.
My wife would be dead without the NHS.
My son would be dead without the NHS.
It's probably the best thing this country has ever done for its population.

sensational and rubbish, so no other country in the world have looked after you?
despite other countries having better medical services than us.

 

[Sankari]

yeah but you guys have fewer chavs/healthier lifestyles than the UK and an insurance/govt combined system where a bit more is spent per person and private companies provide a lot of the care

if the UK govt so much as hinted at wanting to move closer towards the sort of system you've got in Australia there would be outrage at them 'destroying the NHS' etc..

I was actually referring to the UK, not Australia. I think the NHS is fantastic.

 

[Sankari]

Is the purpose of health care good outcomes or access?

Both.

 

[Nasher]

Just to remind everyone how good we have it:

People go nuts about how "expensive" the NHS is, yet it still runs more efficiently than most and actually is the one other health systems are trying to relicate!

The US is just ridiculous, it's a private system yet still somehow costs the government far more than anywhere else lol. It stinks of corruption. Obama tried to change things, but the gun nuts hated it so it didn't work.

 

[dowie]

@dowie What happens in Australia that makes their lifestyles healthier?

I'm not sure they are necessarily I was just making a throwaway comment about chavs, in fact they do seem to have an equivalent called bogans...

but it does beg the question, if they've not got significantly different lifestyles (they're culturally similar to us at least - whereas say Japan will have a rather different diet), then their better outcomes perhaps are simply down to a better healthcare system than us despite not really spending much more than we do

I was actually referring to the UK, not Australia. I think the NHS is fantastic.

But the graphic you quoted seems to indicate that you've got better outcomes where you are? I think that Switzerland and Australia look rather fantastic from that graphic (I'm going to assume that part of the reason for Japan's even better outcomes is down to diet) and that perhaps this big state run system isn't quite all it is cracked up to be when clearly there seem to be countries out there doing rather well with different systems.

 

[Uther]

sensational and rubbish, so no other country in the world have looked after you?
despite other countries having better medical services than us.

?
Nope, all our treatment was here, and free at the point of use. 'Sensational and rubbish' lol. Wind your neck in.

 

[Glaucus]

?
Nope, all our treatment was here, and free at the point of use. 'Sensational and rubbish' lol. Pull your neck in.

Lol, most developed countries have universal access to health care.
So yes, not only was it sensational and utter rubbish, it also shows that you have no clue.

 

[adolf hamster]

I'd be dead without the NHS.
My wife would be dead without the NHS.
My son would be dead without the NHS.
It's probably the best thing this country has ever done for its population.

the same is true for other countries, except you'd be having fun with insurance at this point.

which in itself is score one to the nhs

 

[h4rm0ny]

Just to remind everyone how good we have it:

To be fair to the US Healthcare system, it is waging a daily battle against most American's desire to eat themselves to death. My understanding is that the care itself is actually fairly good.

What is really, really bad in the USA, is the COST of it. I've known people with genuine and treatable injuries who wouldn't go to the doctor's because of the cost. Simply seeing the doctor was within their reach but then, I was told, the extras would start piling on. $40 for a hand x-ray and then $100 dollars for... and so on.

 

[dowie]

To be fair to the US Healthcare system, it is waging a daily battle against most American's desire to eat themselves to death. My understanding is that the care itself is actually fairly good.

What is really, really bad in the USA, is the COST of it. I've known people with genuine and treatable injuries who wouldn't go to the doctor's because of the cost. Simply seeing the doctor was within their reach but then, I was told, the extras would start piling on. $40 for a hand x-ray and then $100 dollars for... and so on.

yeah US system is rather divided - the poor outcomes are partly due to the poor diet as you've highlighted but also poor people who can't even afford insurance let alone insured people being put off by co-pay costs like $40 for an X-ray etc.. I mean the actual cost (or at least the actual involve) of these things will be in the hundreds but insurance policies over there tend to mandate the patients having to pay a small fraction of the cost of each visit, procedure etc..

a middle class professional over in the US on the other hand, with a healthy diet, will have access to some of the best healthcare in the world

 

[Hagar]

When you really need it, the NHS is there.

There is a case for the big discussion to sort out social care which is still bed blocking in a lot of circumstances and whether people as a whole should contribute more. But I think that it does a very good job.

Not everybody can be seen or treated without waiting and there does need to be triage. Urgent cases get dealt with quickly, non urgent, you may wait days, weeks or months depending on assessed clinical need.

 

[V F]

yeah US system is rather divided - the poor outcomes are partly due to the poor diet as you've highlighted but also poor people who can't even afford insurance let alone insured people being put off by co-pay costs like $40 for an X-ray etc.. I mean the actual cost (or at least the actual involve) of these things will be in the hundreds but insurance policies over there tend to mandate the patients having to pay a small fraction of the cost of each visit, procedure etc..

a middle class professional over in the US on the other hand, with a healthy diet, will have access to some of the best healthcare in the world

Then why not change their ways? Lots of people bring on their problems all by themselves that burden any system. Unlike the ones who genuinely run into trouble that becomes complicated.

 

[dowie]

Then why not change their ways? Lots of people bring on their problems all by themselves that burden any system. Unlike the ones who genuinely run into trouble that becomes complicated.

I'm not sure what you mean - are you asking me why unhealthy people don't change their ways? (I can't speak for them) or are you asking why the government can't somehow change them?

 

[V F]

Themselves. Can't have it both ways. Eat horribly, drink, drugs, smoking... Change ones ways and one might not need to ever visit their healthcare at all.

Reminds me of the fire strikes we used to have when they took place and all the recklessness stopped. Or at least for a short time.