NHS holds on to top spot in healthcare survey

I guess a pertinent question is thus, if America has what is described as a profiteering medical system, then why do they still find it within themselves to get fat and ruin their bodies, I suppose it's just NA society.

But in the UK it is similar, perhaps not as awful as the US when it comes to obesity/bad habits, but we all pay the price regardless... some might say that enough's enough and if people want to destroy themselves, they can do so on their own wallet.
 
StriderX said:
But in the UK it is similar, perhaps not as awful as the US when it comes to obesity/bad habits, but we all pay the price regardless... some might say that enough's enough and if people want to destroy themselves, they can do so on their own wallet.
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guess the problem with this is where do you draw the line of what constitutes "destroying yourself"

yes there's the obvious fatty foods/drinking/smoking but exactly how much of those?

you start with say penalising smokers and binge drinkers, next comes if you smoked for a bit but then quit or if you drink more than half a glass of wine a week with a chinese you're also out.

only fair way to do it would be to abolish national insurance and roll it into taxes placed on taboo things, like for example the massive taxes on tobacco products.
 
The only reason it comes high is because it's free at point of service. If you had to hand over a credit card upon strolling in through the front doors it would be rated as one of the worst. The fact that in many regions of the UK you have to wait weeks to get a GP appointment, and that waiting times are breached in A&E all the time, but covered up by simply putting a patient into a bed in the AMU even though they are not being treated or seen to goes to show how terrible our system currently is. The only blessing is that you can literally stroll in off the street with no money or wallet and will eventually get treated without having to worry about payment.
 
Evangelion said:
Healthcare_Spending_Per_Capita.png
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The US is expensive because medical staff are very well paid, spending more money on the NHS is far more likely to simply shift our position to the right on the chart than it is to shift it higher up the chart. (Though there may be other benefits)

I am given to understand if Cuba was on that chart, It would be sitting in the top left quarter at the same level as both the UK and Korea but somewhat to the left of Turkey

So there is rather more to this than either funding or technology...
 
wildman said:
The only blessing is that you can literally stroll in off the street with no money or wallet and will eventually get treated without having to worry about payment.
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You gloss over this like it's a trifling achievement. It is beyond amazing.

The Labour "spending spree" didn't even bring us even with the rest of Europe. 8 years of health austerity is now making itself felt, the Tories are happy to let the NHS crumble and I can only imagine we'll be left with a US style system where the ill are an industry to profit from.
 
Minstadave said:
You gloss over this like it's a trifling achievement. It is beyond amazing.

The Labour "spending spree" didn't even bring us even with the rest of Europe. 8 years of health austerity is now making itself felt, the Tories are happy to let the NHS crumble and I can only imagine we'll be left with a US style system where the ill are an industry to profit from.
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whats the point of walking in if you either don't get seen to in time making you worse, do get seen but then can;t be admitted, or get seen and misdiagnosed and die. Outcomes are king, just because the access is good doesn't mean anything.
 
The problem with this is that care levels are generally very good in my experience. The individual doctors and nurses usually provide quality care and good service leading people to give good opinions about the NHS. The system itself is broken and behind all the good staff is chaos, cuts and an inability to provide the levels of care they need and want to provide. If you have a positive experience it's due to the staff being able to do their jobs under immense stress and pressure. I have had mostly good experiences but my wife is a nurse in a busy emergency department and I understand the system has fundamental flaws. It's remarkable how well the NHS as a whole scores when it's so badly managed and underfunded.
 
Minstadave said:
You're glossing over the billions in profits that are made by the health insurance industry.
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According to Forbes, the US is spending nearly $4,000,000,000,000/Year on healthcare. getting on for 20% GDP! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hardly believable really!

(And despite this, a sizeable minority are only poorly provided for)

"Billions" in Profits is neither here nor there! :/

In the longer term, this level of expenditure is unlikely to be sustainable, by any means....
 
iamdjdz said:
The problem with this is that care levels are generally very good in my experience. The individual doctors and nurses usually provide quality care and good service leading people to give good opinions about the NHS. The system itself is broken and behind all the good staff is chaos, cuts and an inability to provide the levels of care they need and want to provide. If you have a positive experience it's due to the staff being able to do their jobs under immense stress and pressure. I have had mostly good experiences but my wife is a nurse in a busy emergency department and I understand the system has fundamental flaws. It's remarkable how well the NHS as a whole scores when it's so badly managed and underfunded.
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the phrase "lions led by donkeys" seems to be rearing its head again
 
Orionaut said:
The US is expensive because medical staff are very well paid, spending more money on the NHS is far more likely to simply shift our position to the right on the chart than it is to shift it higher up the chart. (Though there may be other benefits)
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No, the US is expensive because:

* they don't have a national health service
* healthcare is entirely dominated by the private sector, which has driven up prices to absurd levels
* private health insurance is outrageously overpriced
* private health insurance cannot be sold across state lines, allowing companies to build up virtual monopolies in individual states

Outcomes are predictably poor, as the chart clearly shows. Countries with a national health service spend less and deliver more, with vastly superior outcomes.
 
Evangelion said:
No, the US is expensive because:

*1 they don't have a national health service
*2 healthcare is entirely dominated by the private sector, which has driven up prices to absurd levels
*3 private health insurance is outrageously overpriced
*4 private health insurance cannot be sold across state lines, allowing companies to build up virtual monopolies in individual states

Outcomes are predictably poor, as the chart clearly shows. Countries with a national health service spend less and deliver more, with vastly superior outcomes.
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I added numbers, I hope you do not mind :)

#1 and #2, And the people who work in the system tend to be very well paid relative to the UK.

#3 See #1 and #2, This has to be paid for.

#4 is interesting, I can certainly see how this might have an effect.

The outcomes probably are not that poor in fact. a third of the US population is not particularly well provided for and their poor outcomes will drag down the stats for the rest . It (as with, erm, crime levels) would be interesting to see what the average outcomes for the people who are fully provided for are and how they compare internationally.
 
Minstadave said:
The Labour "spending spree" didn't even bring us even with the rest of Europe. 8 years of health austerity is now making itself felt, the Tories are happy to let the NHS crumble and I can only imagine we'll be left with a US style system where the ill are an industry to profit from.
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Why on earth do people assume we'll try to adopt the most inefficient model - practically no one is in favour of that even people whoo'd advocate moving towards a privatised system. I can't really take people seriously when they make silly claims like 'the Tories' want a US style healthcare system - who is proposing that then? There are plenty of countries that have substantial private sector involvement in healthcare, some of them are doing a much better job than the UK's NHS.
 
The problem in the US is that government seems to fail hard when it comes to social programs, the private sector just increases it's price to match whatever subsidy (Medicare/caid/whatever) is handed out, just like with education funding.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwor...se-the-price-of-college-tuition/#4772f7d745a2

Much the same issue is occurring the UK with respect to Energy companies, Rail companies, probably couriers (royal mail) where the government subsidy is more or less "profit".
 
The USA also has rampant prescribing. Hospitals know what the insurance will pay for, so thats what your getting, even if its not really needed.
 
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Woden said:
The USA also has rampant prescribing. Hospitals know what the insurance will pay for, so thats what your getting, even if its not really needed.
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That's another laughable thing when people complain about Gps on the UK. In the US the local doc get a cut for the brand drugs they advertise on TV. And getbpaid/ bribed more for pushing certain drug brands. Some here really seem to have no clue what it is like to be treated in other lands.
 
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