Charlie Gard

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Tefal said:
wouldn't the best way at ending ignorance not be to shut this down with zero advances made but allow the child the experimental treatment so that if it qworks or fails at least we learn something?
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The American doctors have said:

* the experimental treatment is unchartered territory
* the treatment would not result in a cure
* the treatment would not extend his life
* at best, the treatment might allow Charlie to smile, and look at objects

There's nothing to be learned from this situation; they already know the outcome.
 
We end the lives of animals who have no quality of life. It's the only compassionate thing we can do at that point. I remember back in 97, My Grandma was laid in bed at our house clutching onto a morphine clicker. She was dying from bowl cancer and the pain from that is apparently unbearable. I remember her clicking away every 10 minutes or so, but it was set up on a longer time scale than that to prevent her from overdosing. She hung on for about a week before the big C took her. Made me angry. It was her life and her pain to endure and she could have used that morphine to take in a gentle way once she'd had enough. BTW, she was of sound mind.


But back on topic, my heart goes out to the parents of CG. Losing a child like that is really tough.
 
I don't blame them at all for wanting to exhaust every chance of saving him, I wouldn't want to live with thinking that I'd given up too easily.

StriderX said:
That's not ethical, you have 90% chance to waste everyone's time and 10% to have a potato as a son.
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...or 90% chance of helping medical science develop a revolutionary new treatment that might improve millions of lives going forward. 10% chance knowing that you didn't kill your son because he would be too high maintenance?

What gets me is there are adults with horrendous illnesses begging to be let die and the state prevents (and even criminalises) it but they're more than happy to pull the plug on a baby because they think it's in a bit of pain, yet apparently not enough to stop them fighting a very court lengthy battle while he's kept alive without any treatment.
 
Tefal said:
have they really not sent somone over?

given how much attention and money has been raised so far id have thought somone would have come over for an examination

edit:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/14/health/charlie-gard-us-doctor-bn/index.html
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Yes but he hasn't been examined yet and they've already said there is a 10% chance of "improvement"...maybe wait til you have examined him first?

Which could just mean they can get his body breathing for itself and do nothing else.
 
The problem I have is where are people getting the 10% from? Considering it will be a treatment never tried on humans, never even tried on mice (according to what I've read). Charlie is suffering from a mitochondrial disease with 16 known cases in the world (not sure if through all time or present right now). So to say there is 10% chance of improving is after all quite damn strong...

And as someone said, it is a bit different to say something about a patient you have never seen or examined, that you most likely don't even have seen scans or test results about and say that your treatment will have a certain effect. Comparing that with Doctors who have dealt with the boy more or less since he was born (or at least diagnosed) and have liaised with I don't know how many different experts around the world.
 
neviditelny said:
The problem I have is where are people getting the 10% from? Considering it will be a treatment never tried on humans, never even tried on mice (according to what I've read). Charlie is suffering from a mitochondrial disease with 16 known cases in the world (not sure if through all time or present right now). So to say there is 10% chance of improving is after all quite damn strong...

And as someone said, it is a bit different to say something about a patient you have never seen or examined, that you most likely don't even have seen scans or test results about and say that your treatment will have a certain effect. Comparing that with Doctors who have dealt with the boy more or less since he was born (or at least diagnosed) and have liaised with I don't know how many different experts around the world.
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yeah that figure was always a bit weird - 10% is unrealistically optimistic for such an untested experiment imo.
 
aardvark said:
yeah that figure was always a bit weird - 10% is unrealistically optimistic for such an untested experiment imo.
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But it's a cute lie for the stupid af parents who want to annoy everyone, because all the American's care about is getting their million dollars on a "whim".
 
Let the child die with dignity.

We give animals more rights than humans when it comes to death. He was unfortunately born to die, there is nothing which can be done which will give him a better way of life, I feel for the parents, but it's time to let the poor kid go. I feel their judgement is way too clouded to make a decision which is right for him.
 
Not many things surprise me anymore but the euthanasia crowd plastering their 'Die with Dignity™' trade mark over this case is surprising to me, they are doing their group massive PR damage. People around the world are seeing the NHS doctors as satanists for wanting to turn off Charlie's life support machine against the wishes of his parents. If the miracle does happen and the world sees Charlie smiling, it's going to be a disaster for Die with Dignity™ and I am in the opinion that all the armchair experts that believe doctors are never wrong, are so invested in Charlie dying with dignity by suffocation (even attacking his poor parents that are in the greatest pain already!) that they do not want him to recover because it will knock their movement back years in Britain and the rest of the world.
 
Yeah pretty melodramatic.

I think the lad who's parents took him overseas from Southampton General for proton beam therapy was worse. They were arrested after a man hunt.
 
StriderX said:
Biggest black mark?

One child with an ultra ultra rare disease... no.
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Your applying logic to a case which lost all logic months ago

Social and regular media will jump on the bandwagon like nothing else. I can see the headlines now. Parents save sons life from NHS! America saves Charlie!

Then there's the trump spin
 
Tosno said:
Not many things surprise me anymore but the euthanasia crowd plastering their 'Die with Dignity™' trade mark over this case is surprising to me, they are doing their group massive PR damage. People around the world are seeing the NHS doctors as satanists for wanting to turn off Charlie's life support machine against the wishes of his parents. If the miracle does happen and the world sees Charlie smiling, it's going to be a disaster for Die with Dignity™ and I am in the opinion that all the armchair experts that believe doctors are never wrong, are so invested in Charlie dying with dignity by suffocation (even attacking his poor parents that are in the greatest pain already!) that they do not want him to recover because it will knock their movement back years in Britain and the rest of the world.
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How exactly is not artificially keeping someone alive Euthanasia? I'd say it's more of a stain on the pro life nutters who would rather an innocent suffer rather than let nature take it's course, he can't be cured, the treatment may mean he gets to be a vegetable (yay, what a great life). At the end of the day the doctors have a duty of care to the poor kid, and part of that duty of care is to not allow any unnecessary suffering, you can't just keep the kid ventilated in perpetuity on the off chance that eventually someone works out how to improve his condition above that of a vegetable.

I do not begrudge the parents one bit, they are desperate to save their child, but the fact that they are essentially being offered snake oil by people trying to make a lot of money is unbelievable.

As for your ridiculous assertion that people don't want him to recover, source or I call total and utter bull on your statement, and possibly the most retarded thing I've read in a long time.
 
Tosno said:
Not many things surprise me anymore but the euthanasia crowd plastering their 'Die with Dignity™' trade mark over this case is surprising to me, they are doing their group massive PR damage. People around the world are seeing the NHS doctors as satanists for wanting to turn off Charlie's life support machine against the wishes of his parents. If the miracle does happen and the world sees Charlie smiling, it's going to be a disaster for Die with Dignity™ and I am in the opinion that all the armchair experts that believe doctors are never wrong, are so invested in Charlie dying with dignity by suffocation (even attacking his poor parents that are in the greatest pain already!) that they do not want him to recover because it will knock their movement back years in Britain and the rest of the world.
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Euthanasia is a different thing to what's being talked about here - that's people choosing to end a life early. This is about AND (allow natural death, known as DNR in the US) which you'll presumably be horrified, is totally a thing in the UK. As I understand it, Charlie's continued existence is purely down to machines - AND removes all artificial support but continues pain management.
 
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