Employee's "mental health day" goes viral

On the flip side I've got a close friend that was sick on the way to work, all over themselves in the car.

Pulled over, phoned boss explaining the situation that they were going to take a day off and got the full guilt trip "well that means we're going to be short staffed!" Etc. They're a nurse so certain amount of pride in their work but ended up DRIVING TO WORK.

Was sick again so left - full guilt trip in person from the boss while never saying "ok go home" or "I expect you to stay".

Best bit? They stood up for themselves and explained they didn't appreciate the way the situation was handled and was told "I'm not going to apologies for speaking my mind"...

They got signed off for 4 weeks.

This stuff protects people as much asit can be abused.
 
The bigger question would be why are so many people depressed or anxious, are the majority diagnosed by a mental health professional or is it a self diagnosis?

If we get to the stage where employers have to accept this type of scenario then it's going to be abused to the point it will cause an impact, unplanned leave already has a large effect financially and on other staff bearing the workload.
 
Ayahuasca said:
The bigger question would be why are so many people depressed or anxious, are the majority diagnosed by a mental health professional or is it a self diagnosis?
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I think the recent findings by a group of non-descript humans that there is actually a 3rd gender, the non-binary, has potentially caused shockwaves around the adult world. Many, previously content that their physiology defines their gender, are now questioning their own identity and are caving under the stress.

Seriously, it is tolerance that has led us here. Historically people just soldiered through it and it was only the really bad cases that needed treatment. I don't know if this is good or bad.
 
dowie said:
I saw this a few days ago and meant to make a thread about it then, have got mixed views about it:




On one hand mental heath issues are something that pretty much all of us will experience at some point(s) in our lives just like being sick is something pretty much all of us will experience - on the other hand, unlike a sickness/infection that you can spread around an office even though you probably could work (and thus perhaps should stay at home instead of trying to be a hero) mental health isn't something infectious that others might catch and perhaps time off ought to be reserved for the more serious cases.

I mean someone with serious anxiety, depression, stress could easily be signed off by a GP for say 2 weeks at a time and have those periods of time off occur consecutively. In this case however she's decided in advance to just take two days off and essentially have a long weekend which would seem to indicate it isn't as serious as someone who needs a serious block of time off.

I do wonder if for these less serious instances that people ought to be taking holidays appropriately and therefore giving themselves adequate breaks - something they're already empowered to do - at least in workplaces/with managers who aren't funny about when holidays are taken.

Also some workplaces/careers are going to be inherently stressful, if low level mental health is going to be casually dealt with by ad hoc self certified sick days then could this cause issues for certain careers - I mean I doubt it would be acceptable to have two days off for 'stress' immediately before a project delivery deadline or perhaps for an Accountant to have regular mental health days just before month/year end.
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In many ways I agree with you, however it could well be the case that the employee and her CEO understand that if she takes these couple of days from time to time, it allows her to keep her self together and actually prevents them from taking much larger blocks of time off, so it could be that these short bursts of a couple of days off massively increase their productivity over what would be achieved if they weren't taking these times to look after their mental health.

Is part of the issue that too few people and managers are willing to allow people to take a day or two every now and then to look after themselves thus forcing themselves to end up at the point where they break, and the company ends up loosing weeks or months of man hours, when it may be the case that they could have sacrificed a couple of days on occasion which would have saved them many, many hours of lost productivity, plus the loss of the extra "off the books" productivity that you get from a happy workforce?
 
I hate using this term but as someone who suffers from Panic Disorder and GAD (diagnosed by a proffesional) I don't think people should be able to do what the lady in the OP did. It's far too easy to lie and blag it and opens up for people taking the mick and also opens it up for people who do actually suffer from maybe not being believed. While Mental health does need the stigma to be taken away I think it is fine as it is in terms of time off etc. If what she did became the norm then everyone would start doing it and it would diminish those of us that actually do suffer but still carry on as best we can. I have taken 1 day off the past year for anxiety and that was due to having a terrible night with it, but I see that the same as someone taking a day off because they were up all night being sick for example. Pre emptive taking time off is complete bs imo.
 
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Japan has laws which protect employees with mental health issues in the workplace. They can get signed off for a year with full pay.

As "honest" as the Japanese are, there were plenty of stories of people taking the year off, coming back for 2 weeks to reset it, then taking another year off.
 
its a tricky balance.

i can agree with the argument for having looser work/social relationships, this business of working to the clock is pointless as we've all had those points where we've finished the days big task 10-15 minutes before leaving, and have nothing that could effectively be accomplished with that time.

workplaces tend to expect you to stay late to finish a job, but that **** gotta work both ways. the argument that "people will just do their days "work" in 2 hours then go home" is invalid, if that's the case then thats just bad management and not ensuring a sufficiently effective workload.

as for mental health issues, from my own perspective it's not something you've planned, i'll openly admit to "faking" generic illness (colds, stomach bugs etc) because it's easier than trying to explain mental issues and how they're just as effective at making you someone who shouldn't be in the workplace. it's a balance though, i don't do it just because i fancy a holiday because i'm not an ********. i sure as hell don't plan it.

but mental or physical, there needs to be a culture shift, i can get why taking a sick day has become something that gets the spanish inquisition out if it's more than 3 days a month or somesuch, but at the end of they day for example do you really want someone with a cold taking one day off, then forcing themselves to come in the next day still just as bad and odds on won't be doing much work anyway for the sake of a number?
 
Ayahuasca said:
The bigger question would be why are so many people depressed or anxious, are the majority diagnosed by a mental health professional or is it a self diagnosis?

If we get to the stage where employers have to accept this type of scenario then it's going to be abused to the point it will cause an impact, unplanned leave already has a large effect financially and on other staff bearing the workload.
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my wife had a long time off work with depression, and I will be honest, I didnt understand. she is fine now but still takes medication ( though not at the same levels as a few years ago) but she can now recognise if things are better or worse as she knows what the signals are, So she can act accordingly.

I still cant get my head around it, but at least I am aware of it now

also counselling helped her a lot ( it was a problem with her boss at work that triggered it all) they both still work together, but the counselling really put her on the right path

if people could identify their mental health problems earlier and get advice you could actually cut long term absences I am sure
 
Its like most things in this world, when you make a system based on honesty you will realise there are a lot of people who are dishonest. Benefits, sick days, taxes etc. Its always a battle and its the reason why we will never have a society that doesn't have divided opinions on things like maternity leave. Great in theory, open to abuse in practice. Until its not socially acceptable to **** over the company you work for these things will always cause problems.
 
Tefal said:
Tbh this soubds like a typical "oh im so depressed" type who's just usurping genuine MH problems as an excuse.


I can't think of any point where a pre-emptive "ah yes a nice 4 day weekend will solve my crippling mh issues"


Most people in our place (which has excelent mh care i have to say) if they're taking time for mental health issues wont be back for at least a month
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I'm not sure I agree, I take days off here and there for the same reason (although I book a couple of days leave and don't advertise it).

But there's a difference between someone having an onset of depression/stress as a singular occurrence, and someone who has suffered with it long term. For the latter, knowing the signs and recognising them is part of life - so taking a couple of days off to preempt it can be effective. If an athlete had a sore leg they would take a few days rest and allow it to recover before returning so they don't make it worse, a recognised and diagnosed mental health issue can be just the same. By the same token, the athlete wouldn't just stop training and go shopping, they should have a recovery routine - and again the same applies to someone who has a mental health issue.

Now it may well be the person in the OP's quote is just using it as an excuse for a couple of days off, but the general principle shouldn't be rejected.
 
TheVoice said:
Not necessarily. If you're getting stressed and anxious at work, being at work isn't going to help.
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Exactly. Depression is only one mental health facet.

I know people that have taken the occasional "mental health" day. They do it after a particularly stressful time at work and just relax for a day or two, essentially an unofficial "time in lieu" to wind down before heading back in.

If they started doing it regularly and at busy times, rather than at the end of busy times, then perhaps the company would be a little more restrictive about it.

Better to have a day or two off occasionally than end up having to take a month or two off in one go.
 
I think the problem with some of these things is that if its your work that is causing the issue then taking a few days off isn't going to change anything. I know a few people that have been signed off work for "stress" in a job that is in no way stressful and surprise surprise, they come back 6 weeks later and the job is the same. Some people are not equipped to deal with their emotional state yet think that time away from their problem will remove it. If you are taking time off for your mental health there really needs to be a framework around this to help people actually deal with their issues.
 
just to throw this one into the mix - form the other thread, this police officer was sacked for calling in sick then going to the races:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-40644598

PC Jonathan Adams went twice to Nottingham Racecourse and to Royal Ascot where he was seen celebrating a win on television.

The officer said the trips were "therapeutic" to deal with a "toxic" work environment.

A disciplinary hearing concluded PC Adams was "not as sick as he claimed".
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he called in sick because he'd been refused leave... if he'd perhaps e-mailed in advanced and simply told them he was taking a 'mental health day' - should that have changed things for him... after all someone suffering from 'stress' (especially related to work) doesn't need to stay at home in bed, getting outside and doing something can be great for stress/anxiety.

the fact that he was refused leave when he wanted to take it could be an indicator of being short staffed.

(obviously in this case he's had three sick days that coincided with race days so rather rumbled)

so in a workplace/job that is stressful in general - if these 'mental health days' become more common - certain people will always have an option to take a day off when they feel like it... as they're quite legitimately stressed and in anywhere short staffed they might well be refused leave. On one hand perhaps that applies more pressure on employers to ensure people can take leave when required and to staff teams appropriately/reduce stress - on the other hand it could cause plenty of disruption.
 
A doctor once told my mate at work that he has insomnia, so now he feels justified in going home from work when he hasn't slept, even though the reason he hasn't slept is that he's stayed up all night on the Saturday playing Final Fantasy Online and then slept all day Sunday, so naturally couldn't fall asleep Sunday night. I mean there's justified mental health, but people really need to help them self as well, are you doing exercise and eating well, are you having enough down time and getting enough water/sleep? Maybe fix those things rather than dumping your workload onto your colleagues so you can have a mental health day.
 
I quite like the idea of not having a number of days leave that can be taken, just working to get the job done. Though I appreciate not all types of work are suitable for it, and the demands placed on management to evaluate performance of staff are greater because of it, though perhaps that's not a bad thing.
 
fez said:
Its like most things in this world, when you make a system based on honesty you will realise there are a lot of people who are dishonest. Benefits, sick days, taxes etc. Its always a battle and its the reason why we will never have a society that doesn't have divided opinions on things like maternity leave. Great in theory, open to abuse in practice. Until its not socially acceptable to **** over the company you work for these things will always cause problems.
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true, always the bad apples spoil it for the rest of us.
 
Caged said:
I quite like the idea of not having a number of days leave that can be taken, just working to get the job done. Though I appreciate not all types of work are suitable for it, and the demands placed on management to evaluate performance of staff are greater because of it, though perhaps that's not a bad thing.
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well I do wonder if the 'take as much leave as you like' approach will lead to people taking less leave overall in order to not be seen to fall behind their peers - (I'm going to assume that the place implementing such a policy re: paid leave is the sort of place where you have an annual pay review and discretionary bonus...)

on the other hand AFAIK Virgin actually implements a policy like this so presumably it doesn't go drastically wrong either way in terms of people taking ridiculous amounts or no leave at all and ending up burned out
 
The places that I've personally heard it being mentioned are likely filled with 'silicon valley bros' so chances are it works terribly there as everybody is busy knifing each other for stock options that will never amount to anything. It's a nice idea though.
 
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