PC connections and motherboard designs that need to die.

[MissChief]

I've just put together an ITX PC for a friend and while building this thing I came to many decisions. The first was that I should have connected many things before putting the video card in. The other was that many motherboards and cable types really should have died a long time ago.

The first, Molex. Why the hell is Molex still so common? They're big, unwieldy and, it seem, not very robust. In fact I've broken some of the connectors, especially the metal inserts inside.

The second is the layout of the motherboard and the connection types. Why are so many of them at right angles to the board? And why aren't they all arranged at the edge of the board making cable tidying and connections far simpler than they are? For example the 4 pin CPU power connector is usually way up in one corner of the board, often away from the edge of the board meaning the cable needs to snake its way under the video card or over the top as the cable itself is rarely long enough to go under the board and reappear in a suitable location.

Honestly I think many things about motherboards and PSU's need a complete rethink and I'm surprised someone like Gigabyte, Asus or MSI haven't at least attempted to redesign a motherboard with a far more logical and easy to use and build design. And PSU's still come with floppy connectors and 6 or more Molex connectors. Seriously, things need to change.

 

[bremen1874]

Something more logical like BTX?

 

[Rroff]

I hate messing about under the heatsink trying to connect it especially if you've got to deal less than ideal clearance for the RAM or GPU.

I think the 4 pin molex connectors have remained in use due to being a cheap and easy way to reliably handle the potential current loads involved.

 

[Hotwired]

Molex is plenty robust but nothing stops a manufacturer using actual garbage plastics and ruining it.

I do not rate the skinny blades and contact fingers of SATA connectors as more robust than molex that's for sure.

 

[EsaT]

The first, Molex. Why the hell is Molex still so common? They're big, unwieldy and, it seem, not very robust. In fact I've broken some of the connectors, especially the metal inserts inside.

Compared to some C-type USB with microscopic contacts and barely any real separation between them Molex is industrial class connector.
Also SATA's flimsy contacts break and short circuit very easily if low quality one...
With not used by anyone 3,3 volt contacts just making it more crowded.

All newer connectors rely to lot more higher precision and quality requirements to not be instant failures and short circuits.

Again floppy power connector has been used also by other devices like fan controllers.
And at least modular Seasonics have long had it just as adapter to Molex.

Something more logical like BTX?

And with CPU located closer to motherboard's vertical center big heatsinks would collide with graphics cards...

 

[Plec]

>snip<

EsaT pretty much sums it up.

But appreciate your annoyance - with regard to cheap molex connectors or even 'supposed' quality ones (as mentioned by Hotwired).

Decent male/female molex connectors are great - usually very easy and robust to use. The problem is when one or both of the male/female connector is of poor quality and then things become a real pain. In the past I've found it almost impossible to connect them together - and even resorted to cutting cables on some past old builds...

I've got a CPU power extension lead in permanent reserve now, for friends/family builds, as I've got fed up with being presented with a PSU with a cable not long enough for preferred cable management.

 

[Emphacy]

The second is the layout of the motherboard and the connection types. Why are so many of them at right angles to the board? And why aren't they all arranged at the edge of the board making cable tidying and connections far simpler than they are? For example the 4 pin CPU power connector is usually way up in one corner of the board, often away from the edge of the board meaning the cable needs to snake its way under the video card or over the top as the cable itself is rarely long enough to go under the board and reappear in a suitable location.

Honestly I think many things about motherboards and PSU's need a complete rethink and I'm surprised someone like Gigabyte, Asus or MSI haven't at least attempted to redesign a motherboard with a far more logical and easy to use and build design.

Get yourself into PCB layout and routing and you'll quickly discover you can't just place connectors and components wherever you want. You've got to fit all of the components within a mass of carefully placed wires. Tracks have to be very carefully routed so they meet certain constraints. Timing is usually the most important but capacitance, resistance and maximum voltage/ current are as well.

In general, there's a very good reason the components are where they are. Fan headers etc are usually an afterthought but there isn't a lot of space on that PCB afterwards to put them.

 

[Minstadave]

M2 makes no sense to me at all. Takes up loads of surface space, crap for cooling, can only get a few on a motherboard and end up squeezed between PCI-E slots so you have to half disassemble your PC to get to them.

Also motherboard additional power inputs slap bang in the middle of the board should be illegal.

 

[MissChief]

Get yourself into PCB layout and routing and you'll quickly discover you can't just place connectors and components wherever you want. You've got to fit all of the components within a mass of carefully placed wires. Tracks have to be very carefully routed so they meet certain constraints. Timing is usually the most important but capacitance, resistance and maximum voltage/ current are as well.

In general, there's a very good reason the components are where they are. Fan headers etc are usually an afterthought but there isn't a lot of space on that PCB afterwards to put them.

I'm sure many of the connectors are in suitable or necessary locations but, for example, all the mini connectors for the power, HDD LED, reset switch etc always seem to end up at the bottom of the board when most cases now have these buttons on the top. Also the main power connector is on the edge of the board but doesn't really need to be perpendicular to the board so you end up with the thick, inflexible cable coming up and then looping down behind the board again. It's crazy.

 

[EsaT]

I've got a CPU power extension lead in permanent reserve now, for friends/family builds, as I've got fed up with being presented with a PSU with a cable not long enough for preferred cable management.

Makes cable routing lot easier.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ocuk-value-4-4-pin-eps-30cm-extension-cable-black-cm-14d-ok.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/akasa-flexa-p8-40cm-cpu-power-extension-ak-cbpw08-40bk-cb-066-ak.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/silv...pin-30cm-atx-eps-extension-red-cb-008-sv.html

 

[EsaT]

Also the main power connector is on the edge of the board but doesn't really need to be perpendicular to the board so you end up with the thick, inflexible cable coming up and then looping down behind the board again. It's crazy.

They could indeed use angled edge connectors in small cramped motherboards...
But then if case doesn't have enough extra space in that direction you would be screwed.
Because ATX/ITX specifications don't include extra space in case for such things.

Get yourself into PCB layout and routing and you'll quickly discover you can't just place connectors and components wherever you want. You've got to fit all of the components within a mass of carefully placed wires. Tracks have to be very carefully routed so they meet certain constraints. Timing is usually the most important but capacitance, resistance and maximum voltage/ current are as well.

Especially Mini-ITX motherboard is very short on space.
And in wiring capacitance and inductance are very important at frequencies of PC's internal signaling.
Plus in parallel bus all signal wires have to be equally long.

M2 makes no sense to me at all. Takes up loads of surface space, crap for cooling, can only get a few on a motherboard and end up squeezed between PCI-E slots so you have to half disassemble your PC to get to them.

Indeed can't understand why they made it such...
I guess designers are nowadays marketroids and other "suits" instead of engineers.

Then again super fast M2 SSDs don't make much of real world difference despite of all big synthetic benchmarketing numbers.
http://techreport.com/review/31177/patriot-hellfire-480gb-nvme-ssd-reviewed/5

 

[jbh110tdi]

Makes cable routing lot easier.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ocuk-value-4-4-pin-eps-30cm-extension-cable-black-cm-14d-ok.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/akasa-flexa-p8-40cm-cpu-power-extension-ak-cbpw08-40bk-cb-066-ak.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/silv...pin-30cm-atx-eps-extension-red-cb-008-sv.html

2nd this.. I have braided cable extensions in my build. not only does it make life easier it also looks so much better..

 

[Armadillo]

PCIE clips can go as well. No point to them at all, gpu doesn't fall out the slot without it. All they do is make removing gpus a pain, especially if you have sli or large gpus that block most of the release lever.

 

[mistersprinkles]

M2 makes no sense to me at all. Takes up loads of surface space, crap for cooling, can only get a few on a motherboard and end up squeezed between PCI-E slots so you have to half disassemble your PC to get to them.

Also motherboard additional power inputs slap bang in the middle of the board should be illegal.

Agreed! Let's report it to the computer police! Oh, here's one now. Constibul! Constibul!!.....

 

[schneeb]

Molex pins are a PITA, much like USB - don't try to force it!

 

[Hagar]

One advantage of molex is the 0V,5V and 12V pinouts making 5V, 7V and 12V connections possible. Other than that, they are a bit bulky and old fashioned.

 

[schneeb]

the sata m.2 in my NUC is great; the pci-e ones seem useless though!

 

[Steampunk]

I've just put together an ITX PC for a friend and while building this thing I came to many decisions. The first was that I should have connected many things before putting the video card in. The other was that many motherboards and cable types really should have died a long time ago.

Yep, video card is always last.

The first, Molex. Why the hell is Molex still so common? They're big, unwieldy and, it seem, not very robust. In fact I've broken some of the connectors, especially the metal inserts inside.

Old and clunky, but they still work and some legacy stuff still needs them. Not a problem with a modular PSU, so you can get rid of excess cabling if you don't need it.

The second is the layout of the motherboard and the connection types. Why are so many of them at right angles to the board? And why aren't they all arranged at the edge of the board making cable tidying and connections far simpler than they are? For example the 4 pin CPU power connector is usually way up in one corner of the board, often away from the edge of the board meaning the cable needs to snake its way under the video card or over the top as the cable itself is rarely long enough to go under the board and reappear in a suitable location.

Trace layout is hard. One of the reasons the industry went to SATA is because it was getting near impossible to deal with the number of PATA traces you needed. With more and more stuff coming on the motherboard as standard, even eight layer motherboards have problems to fit everything in. With regards to the AUX power connector, it's only a problem if your PSU is at the bottom of the case and your motherboard at the top, but the easiest solution is to buy an extension lead and then run the cable wherever you want. Mine goes across the top, behind the motherboard tray, down and back out to the PSU. It's totally out of the way.

In the end, fitting into the standard case puts limits on where everything can go and where things are laid out. It's the only way to be able to buy a motherboard and case and know they will both fit together.

Honestly I think many things about motherboards and PSU's need a complete rethink and I'm surprised someone like Gigabyte, Asus or MSI haven't at least attempted to redesign a motherboard with a far more logical and easy to use and build design. And PSU's still come with floppy connectors and 6 or more Molex connectors. Seriously, things need to change.

Get a modular PSU where you can simply not install the cables and connectors you don't need/want.

 

[electronicsguy]

Completely agree with the OP. The entire motherboard and on-board system cards need a huge overhaul for the next 20 years. We need a way way simplistic design, with universal connectors, cables. Just 1 type of cable should serve all purposes. Design of power efficiency, heat exchange and noise should be from ground-up, not an afterthought.

Ideally, I'd like to see a design where all cards have a single interface design (no PCI, PCIe, sata, m.2 etc) - plug any card into one of the ports.

Ofcourse, we'll also need a complete redesign of the PSU, harddrives, external ports.

What happened to this?

https://edgeup.asus.com/2019/the-as...orecasts-the-future-of-high-end-motherboards/

 

[jaybee]

Molex is terrible as an actual connector. The force you have to put into the resistance fit is bad as you can skin fingers as you slide off at an angle, and often they do not align properly and just won't go in easily or pop the internal pins out. A lot of things are hanging around because it's just a legacy thing that they are scared to change as it will inevitably not help companies become more profitable in any way, and if anything will hinder revenue as more people find their "old" products won't meet new standards.
It sounds like the 24 pin ATX connector could be going in the future as there is talk of moving over to a 10 pin design.