Wisconsin Company To (offer) Implant Microchips In Employees.

[hornetstinger]

Since the implant is in your 24/7 then I'd want to be paid 24/7 too.

 

[dowie]

The reason people are "attacking you" is cause the argument you are presenting is utter garbage. Like hilariously bad. It's been completely torn to shreds.

no it isn't also I never said anyone is attacking me but rather attacking things I've not said

The company offering the implant is called BioHax - implants is all they do and they have been doing it for years. I found this on their website: "As we are keen on quality and industry standard practices. We are therefore using the world's most passionate and experienced biometric chip implanter who combined with years of expertise and knowledge in the field have set the standard"

So if you want to know more about their standards get them on the horn and ask.

Furthermore they are offering this product in the US which is the home of medical lawsuits. If these things turn out to have serious medical consequences they'd be sued to the ground. So you can be sure they've put a lot of time effort and money into ensuring they are safe.

and now ironically that is actually an utter garbage argument - it is safe because the company says it is safe and if it wasn't they'd be sued... completely missing the point that they can't know for sure that it is 'safe' in the first place

 

[dowie]

well its true that schrapnel can be dangerous, i mean that's kind of the point of it's existence is to be dangerous. my point is that there are cases of people who have schrapnel who have lived their entire lives without it being an issue, and that's just pure luck and materials that aren't exactly designed for being safe to implant (most obviously bullets- having lead stuck in your body for years).

if you can do it by accident with materials not designed to survive/be non-invasive to the human body then you sure as hell can do it with a designed implant properly located.

just because something completely different has in some cases been ok-ish within someones body doesn't tell you that an unrelated thing is going to be safe over a long period of time

I mean **** it, why test any medical implants either, they're all safe because shrapnel exists right?

 

[adolf hamster]

just because something completely different has in some cases been ok-ish within someones body doesn't tell you that an unrelated thing is going to be safe over a long period of time

I mean **** it, why test any medical implants either, they're all safe because shrapnel exists right?

we've already been over this, there's loads of testing, medical precedence in both humans and animals to establish the kinds of materials, manufacturing methods and methods of implanting that we can be as sure as anyone ever can be that it'll be safe, there's precedence for the human body to survive with foreign bodies without detriment (including electronic devices implanted right next to vital organs as opposed to just popped under the skin of your arm, and the prescence of poisonous materials such as lead bullets applied with no actual surgical precision)

i mean really what exactly do you expect an implant like this is going to do over a long period of time to the body that would harm it exactly? because we've already established any argument based on mechanical, electrical or chemical harm to the body is bullcrap based on whichever precedence most aptly applies, in which case the worst possible thing that could happen is the implant fails in it's function and needs replaced, which is going to be considerably less invasive to acheive than the replacement of a pacemaker.

what more do you want?

 

[Tefal]

so this thing is basicaly just the microchip you have out in your cat/dog?

 

[dowie]

we've already been over this, there's loads of testing, medical precedence in both humans and animals to establish the kinds of materials, manufacturing methods and methods of implanting that we can be as sure as anyone ever can be that it'll be safe,

that's the thing we can't be sure, this isn't a pace maker or a hip replacement, this is a small chip, you don't know for sure what will likely happen to the thing over say 30 years of being implanted inside someone, what the risks are etc..

what more do you want?

I'd want to see these things actually tested over several years before putting one in my body - it is quite a straightforwards and reasonable point to grasp, they're not currently tested and you're making arguments using assumptions derived from the existence of other forms of implants

so this thing is basicaly just the microchip you have out in your cat/dog?

seems like something along those lines, except humans live for a fair bit longer than a cat or a dog

 

[Nasher]

Yea this is largely untested on humans. Trials on chipping people were stopped in the past due to cancer risks.

I can imagine the legal reprecussions would be massive if they stuck one of these in someone's hand and they had some kind of reaction to it.

 

[dowie]

few of the concerns at the moment seem to be that they could migrate under the skin (potentially into a position where extraction then becomes difficult), they may impact on electro surgical devices and defibrillators (I assume this is rather low risk though), potential interaction with various pharmaceuticals is unknown

also you stick one of these things under for potentially the rest of your life you're talking several decades, we don't know how that will work out despite people presenting various handwaving arguments about how shrapnel and hip replacements exist

 

[krisboats]

I'm only repeatedly pointing it out to people who keep quoting me with stupid arguments or attacking things I've not even said

Well I've not said anything about other people or said other people shouldn't - so, so what indeed? I've pointed out that I'd not do so and gave my reasons, is that so hard to understand?

No it isnt hard to understand that you dont want to because you dont want to be the first on the offchance of a complication. Other people are actually agreeing with you in saying that its impossible to know 100% if it will be safe, but then they've presented examples of things that are 99.9% similar without issues and you keep repeating that its impossible to know the long term effects. Again, something nobody else is disputing. Its just the same point over and over to almost every other poster in the thread.

Fact is, a medical implant will be largely the same as a pet microchip and most likely built using the same materials as current medical implants. Both are left in for decades and have no ill effect so its fairly safe to presume these new human chips will be fine. Repeatedly saying we dont know for sure is just flogging a dead horse, we all know there'll be a slight risk but most are smart enough to realise the chips will most likely be fine. Life has risks in everything, if everyone was a negative nancy to the point of never doing anything unless its 100% okay then life would be boring.

 

[Nasher]

Fact is, a medical implant will be largely the same as a pet microchip and most likely built using the same materials as current medical implants. Both are left in for decades and have no ill effect so its fairly safe to presume these new human chips will be fine. Repeatedly saying we dont know for sure is just flogging a dead horse, we all know there'll be a slight risk but most are smart enough to realise the chips will most likely be fine. Life has risks in everything, if everyone was a negative nancy to the point of never doing anything unless its 100% okay then life would be boring.

Yes but a small number cats and dogs do develop cancer around the chip implant. They only live for maybe a max of 20 years so it's not seen as a major issue. People can live to over 100, so the risk is way higher.

Anything that emits a radio signal being stuck inside you is cancer causing, it's a known risk with pacemakers even. Shrapnel is very dangerous in the body and it often does cause health problems. Hip replacements can be rejected by the body as well.

 

[dowie]

Repeatedly saying we dont know for sure is just flogging a dead horse, we all know there'll be a slight risk but most are smart enough to realise the chips will most likely be fine. Life has risks in everything, if everyone was a negative nancy to the point of never doing anything unless its 100% okay then life would be boring.

again I'm only repeating my arguments to people who quote me to object to them or who stupidly attack something I've not said in the first place, I think it is a reasonable position and frankly if you agree with it then what is the issue?

Shrapnel is very dangerous in the body and it often does cause health problems. Hip replacements can be rejected by the body as well.

tbh.. they were just lazy arguments by the other poster, I'd certainly not be happy sticking a new chip inside me because some other forms of implants exist even if they are safe

 

[platypus]

whilst having debris from wearing of joints is a valid issue, it doesn't apply in this case, given these implants aren't a mechanical joint under considerable stress.

You said we're good at making things last inside the human body for a long time, which we're demonstrably not in several cases.

And given that there are no long term studies of this yet its a little early to say definitively if they'll be ok. That they likely will be still needs caveating.

 

[krisboats]

Yes but a small number cats and dogs do develop cancer around the chip implant. They only live for maybe a max of 20 years so it's not seen as a major issue. People can live to over 100, so the risk is way higher.

Anything that emits a radio signal being stuck inside you is cancer causing. Shrapnel is very dangerous in the body and it often does cause health problems. Hip replacements can be rejected by the body as well.

Some animals have a higher disposition for developing cancer around the site of an infection, injury or implant. As far as i'm aware the cancer hasnt been specifically linked to the implants though. My dog has a chip, she's now 12 years old and has around 20 tumours (golden retrievers are prone to them) across her back. From what i can find only 2 dogs and 2 cats out of the millions that are chipped have been presented with chip related cancer and 1 of each was not found to be directly linked. The mice that presented with chip cancer were already in cancer studies and are more prone to getting it.

 

[krisboats]

again I'm only repeating my arguments to people who quote me to object to them or who stupidly attack something I've not said in the first place, I think it is a reasonable position and frankly if you agree with it then what is the issue?



tbh.. they were just lazy arguments by the other poster, I'd certainly not be happy sticking a new chip inside me because some other forms of implants exist even if they are safe

Its not a problem, but it leads to a boring thread when one poster repeats the same thing over and over again.

Some other form of implants is a massive underestimate btw. According to a 2010 medical journal there was 1539 types of replacement hip available at the time of writing! Thats significantly more than a few

 

[BananaDunka]

It's just a simple rfid chip, the same type that's in every credit and debit card, and an implant type that has been i use for decades in pets and human recreation and the like. This is a non news story being oevrblown by the usual online scaremongers.

 

[V F]

It's just a simple rfid chip, the same type that's in every credit and debit card, and an implant type that has been i use for decades in pets and human recreation and the like. This is a non news story being oevrblown by the usual online scaremongers.

The end is nigh.

 

[do_ron_ron]

The wet dream of totalitarian Govts, being able to microchip their populace so that they can track them anytime and check on their daily lives.

 

[Nasher]

It's just a simple rfid chip, the same type that's in every credit and debit card, and an implant type that has been i use for decades in pets and human recreation and the like. This is a non news story being oevrblown by the usual online scaremongers.

They already had a trial of RFID chips in humans for medical reasons, but it was ended because of a cancer risk. The dangers already documented. It's not safe to stick any forign object inside your body.

 

[adolf hamster]

that's the thing we can't be sure, this isn't a pace maker or a hip replacement, this is a small chip, you don't know for sure what will likely happen to the thing over say 30 years of being implanted inside someone, what the risks are etc..

you can never be sure of anything, but you can get pretty damn close.

you're blowing this well out of proportion, there are many things much worse for you than a little implant with a passive chip in it. do you wear a mask every day to protect against the effects of diesel particulates? if so, i worry for you being so paranoid.

I'd want to see these things actually tested over several years before putting one in my body - it is quite a straightforwards and reasonable point to grasp, they're not currently tested and you're making arguments using assumptions derived from the existence of other forms of implants

if you fail to see how using knowledge derived from implanting foreign material into the human body for extended periods of time isn't applicable to make an educated conclusion that similar material won't have the same effect then i'm afraid there's not much hope for me saying anything further. you can call my arguments lazy if you like, but a lazy argument is better than a non-existent one.

 

[V F]

The wet dream of totalitarian Govts, being able to microchip their populace so that they can track them anytime and check on their daily lives.