![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Yes, provided you sync it over usb.
Talk to me about 640d Gran Coupe please
- Thread starter Bear
- Start date
Yes, provided you sync it over usb.
It will not update an F10 through anything other than usb. The last updated time will always be the last time it was synced over usb.
I was talking about the X250 and XJ, you'll not find many higher spec of either showing any issues, the materials quality was far higher in the X250 and as far as I know, it still is in the XJ. The X260 and XE are a different story.
Even the X351 XJ Portfolio has some suspect plastics and some dodgy switches in it. It looks great but I'd say the equivalent 7-Series has better quality materials, buttons, layout and tech.
I've never noticed any, but I've only spent time in later cars than yours, so maybe issues were addressed? Either way, it's a comparison between the XJ and the 6 GC, my experience of both says that the XJ uses better quality materials as standard.
Nah, I disagree. I've driven in a 6-Series regularly and it's better screwed together than the XJ.
For example, the electric window switches have a sharp front edge and feel flimsy in the XJ. In the BMW they are soft and nicely damped. Same with the buttons on the centre console; they are clicky and feel hollow in the Jag. Metal finishers around the transmission tunnel feel flimsy in the XJ.
At the end of the day, I love the XJ but I would never put it in the same class as a BMW, Merc, or Audi for material quality or general fit and finish. It's close, but not quite there.
Oh, and I had a 2016 model when mine was in for a service and apart from a much better instruments LCD, and better nav display, it was much the same. Don't get me wrong, it's a lovely place to be and I wouldn't trade mine for a 6, 7, S, or A8, but the Germans are just better from a build quality perspective.
For example, the electric window switches have a sharp front edge and feel flimsy in the XJ. In the BMW they are soft and nicely damped. Same with the buttons on the centre console; they are clicky and feel hollow in the Jag. Metal finishers around the transmission tunnel feel flimsy in the XJ.
At the end of the day, I love the XJ but I would never put it in the same class as a BMW, Merc, or Audi for material quality or general fit and finish. It's close, but not quite there.
Oh, and I had a 2016 model when mine was in for a service and apart from a much better instruments LCD, and better nav display, it was much the same. Don't get me wrong, it's a lovely place to be and I wouldn't trade mine for a 6, 7, S, or A8, but the Germans are just better from a build quality perspective.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2005
- Posts
- 32,247
- Location
- Leafy Cheshire
Thats what a a bigger R&D budget gets you, if Jag sales continue as they have been i'm sure quality will improve over time.
How does a bigger r and d budget get you nicer quality plastics? The plastics aren't developed in house.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2005
- Posts
- 32,247
- Location
- Leafy Cheshire
Interesting that out of all of that you just picked up on the quality of plastics, i'm talking about the general fit, finish and product function.
I moved from a F10 to a GC recently (car was stolen 
) the options I have on it is carbon ceramic brakes, B&O stereo, surround view - the cameras are great as the car is long. You do get a lot as standard on these (full leather, adaptive led headlights for example)
Love the interior it feels like a cockpit and iDrive is sharp and bright. Drivetrain and gearbox is fantastic as per the f10 the ride is a bit harsher as it's lower (comp pack stiffer springs prob don't help)
) the options I have on it is carbon ceramic brakes, B&O stereo, surround view - the cameras are great as the car is long. You do get a lot as standard on these (full leather, adaptive led headlights for example) Love the interior it feels like a cockpit and iDrive is sharp and bright. Drivetrain and gearbox is fantastic as per the f10 the ride is a bit harsher as it's lower (comp pack stiffer springs prob don't help)
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 18,052
- Location
- Shakespeare’s County
Volume! You can afford to tool up when you buy more of them and the tooling can be amortised against the piece cost.
Or you look at it as you have 1500 Euro for a cabin. Jag get less for the 1500 Euro pot than BMW and hence trades have to be made with material selections and/or tolerance accuracy of the parts.
Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 8,617
Those are some big wheels 
No carpeted door bins in an XF
Everything you chuck in bashes against the nasty plastic
That's not an R and D issue though, that's a procurement issue.
In what way is the initial choice of materials, research into what the market wants, comparison with competing products etc not an R and D issue?
Driving an XF you wonder whether anyone involved ever drove a 5 Series or an E Class. I guess we can sort of let them off with the E Class as it wasn't yet out during the design phase but the 5 Series had been around since 2010!
Even simple things such as what happens when you press the Telephone button on the steering wheel is maddeningly annoying.
Because it's not. Market research is a business development issue. Choice of materials would be a design issue driven by market research and technical requirements. R and D might then come up with something based upon input from a specification.
Ultimately R and D can develop whatever the hell they want - somebody else makes the decision to use that material.
We know that they had superior plastics before - a decision, probably driven by cost, has been made to use what is seemingly an inferior product. That decision won't have been made by R and D. It'll have been made by either a design engineer or a PM.
I'd actually go as far as guessing that JLR don't even mould their own plastics and probably have a 3rd party supply them.
The likely development route would be >>>
JLR produce a design specification - this is a technical document which will list the requirements for a particular material or component. It'll state what national, international and possibly internal standards it must conform to. What physical characteristics it must have. What aesthetic conditions it must meet. Typically it is written by a design or project engineer - I used to write these in my last job for components for oil platforms.
This will be supplied to 3rd party polymer part manufacturers although JLR may do this part in house.
They will then pass the material requirements on to a polymer supplier.
Suppliers will then come back with a shortlist of suitable materials and typical costs per tonne.
If the material is not qualified already for use by JLR then it is likely a testing regime will be conducted - this is the bit R and D would do - to approve the material for use from a technical standpoint.
This will normally leave JLR in a position where they have several different plastics that are qualified to manufacture a particular part. The decision to which plastic is chosen will ultimately come down to appearance and cost. Another decision I used to make although for me it was typically dead easy - what does the job and is cheapest?
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 18,052
- Location
- Shakespeare’s County
Yes leverage with volume.
R&D is what pays the product development engineers salary too. There's a lot going on underneath the material that you can't really think the total cost is solely down to the A surface part the customer see.