Sarah Champion resigns after saying UK has problem with British Pakistani men raping white girls

Hagar · 17 Aug 2017 at 13:28

Kenai said:
Nobody is saying it excuses it, the point is that even if you remove every single 'south Asian Muslim man' from the country, you still have a swathe of extremely vulnerable young women and children who should not be left that vulnerable.

As a society we have a duty to support these people out of vulnerable situations just as much as we have responsibility to remove those who would prey on such vulnerability.

Currently we clearly fail on both fronts.

They are only vulnerable as they are targeted.

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 13:31

nkata said:
They are only vulnerable as they are targeted.

Nope.

vulnerable
ˈvʌln(ə)rəb(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: vulnerable

exposed to the possibility of being attacked or harmed, either physically or emotionally.
"we were in a vulnerable position"
synonyms: in danger, in peril, in jeopardy, at risk, endangered, unsafe, unprotected, ill-protected, unguarded; More

antonyms: well protected, invulnerable, resilient, immune to, above

(of a person) in need of special care, support, or protection because of age, disability, or risk of abuse or neglect.
"the scheme will help charities working with vulnerable adults and young people"

Kenai · 17 Aug 2017 at 13:31

nkata said:
They are only vulnerable as they are targeted.

They're targeted because they're vulnerable, so they make easy targets.

stewski · 17 Aug 2017 at 13:45

nkata said:
They are only vulnerable as they are targeted.

Before anyone tries to shut down discussion again, I support Champions attempt to avoid the moronic post after post in the Sun and I see no issue with engaging and identifying the problem from within any community, in her case as a local MP she should represent her constituents and to my mind has done so.

There is likely a lack of understanding in how comprehensively we fail as a nation, to support kids in care and the vulnerable! That failure, from a utilitarian point of view, goes well beyond these girls, but excuses not a single person/group from illegal activity around them!

It seems highly unlikely that the police always investigate without prejudice (a term that means no group or individual should get special treatment) a range of abuse cases, sensitivity is no excuse for failing victims who report such crimes and investigation into how abuse cases have been and will be handled and prosecuted is clearly overdue, for the sake of a range of victims spanning decades.

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 13:49

Kenai said:
They're targeted because they're vulnerable, so they make easy targets.

Exactly

These asian grooming gangs aren't going to Henly-on-Thames to get their victims are they?

I literally don't think anyone here is blaming the victims - Not like the police and social services did at first. But they are targeting vulnerable young girls, not all girls.

Therefore you have to look at both the asian communities and why it is more rife there (already discussed at length), along with the social care system and how the girls become vulnerable in the first place.

Faustus · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:01

Gigabit said:
The issue with that is that before the CIA went in and put in a puppet dictator, Iran was actually a rather well functioning country.

A lot of the Middle East was before we got involved.

What, are we bringing Richard the Lionheart and the Templar Knights into this debate now?

Faustus · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:05

Raz said:
Don't think he can help you out more mate

No I agree with you and should be said as such. Even though in my first post I said I didn't think she should have left I'm assuming that you think she should have resigned? Not everyone first neatly into labels.

I do not think she should have resigned or quit/been forced out. I think she should be congratulated for her honesty. It's now being reported that Corbyn forced her out. His words about not demonising any group ring somewhat hollow given the ongoing row about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.

Faustus · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:07

stewski said:
Before anyone tries to shut down discussion again, I support Champions attempt to avoid the moronic post after post in the Sun and I see no issue with engaging and identifying the problem from within any community, in her case as a local MP she should represent her constituents and to my mind has done so.

There is likely a lack of understanding in how comprehensively we fail as a nation, to support kids in care and the vulnerable! That failure, from a utilitarian point of view, goes well beyond these girls, but excuses not a single person/group from illegal activity around them!

It seems highly unlikely that the police always investigate without prejudice (a term that means no group or individual should get special treatment) a range of abuse cases, sensitivity is no excuse for failing victims who report such crimes and investigation into how abuse cases have been and will be handled and prosecuted is clearly overdue, for the sake of a range of victims spanning decades.

Absolutely correct. As a nation we are very adept at sweeping inconvenient truths under the national carpet.

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:09

Faustus said:
It's now being reported that Corbyn forced her out. His words about not demonising any group ring somewhat hollow given the ongoing row about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.

A conservative MP is claiming that is the case, how would he know about the hirings and firings in the Labour party?

Mr Javid claims she was forced out by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.

But Mr Corbyn insists it was her own choice to stand down, albeit one that he supported.

stewski · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:10

Faustus said:
What, are we bringing Richard the Lionheart and the Templar Knights into this debate now?

I don't see how mentioning involvement by existing states a few generation ago is equivalent to kings and religion of old, the whole thing is a major tangent in any case!

stewski · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:13

Faustus said:
I do not think she should have resigned or quit/been forced out. I think she should be congratulated for her honesty. It's now being reported that Corbyn forced her out. His words about not demonising any group ring somewhat hollow given the ongoing row about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.

Corbyn is quoted as saying he's looking forward to working with her.
It is unlikely she's been cast aside, her own words suggest she thinks equalities is currently a distraction from what is needed by her constituents!

Spinners gonna spin though...

Hades · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:14

Faustus said:
I do not think she should have resigned or quit/been forced out. I think she should be congratulated for her honesty. It's now being reported that Corbyn forced her out. His words about not demonising any group ring somewhat hollow given the ongoing row about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.

Agree completely.

stewski · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:15

Hades said:
Agree completely.

read the post above, you seem to be spinning like a jenny

Hades · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:18

stewski said:
read the post above, you seem to be spinning like a jenny

I don't understand your spinning comment. Please can you explain?

stewski · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:20

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(propaganda

spin is a form of propaganda, achieved through providing a biased interpretation of an event or campaigning to persuade public opinion in favor or against some organization or public figure. While traditional public relations and advertising may also rely on altering the presentation of the facts, "spin" often implies the use of disingenuous, deceptive, and highly manipulative tactics.[1]

Faustus · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:21

stewski said:
I don't see how mentioning involvement by existing states a few generation ago is equivalent to kings and religion of old, the whole thing is a major tangent in any case!

Well you did say 'before we became involved'. We have been involved in that region since the Crusades and what happened during that period is still (believe it or believe it not) an issue to this day.

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:26

Hades said:
I don't understand your spinning comment. Please can you explain?

You "agree completely" and therefore agree that Corbyn forced her out, even though that isn't the case.

If she was forced out why is she still a back bencher?

dowie · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:29

Though I previously have voted labour I'm certainly not a fan of the current leadership/shadow cabinet... though I don't really see the issue with what she has said here, seemingly she's been pressured to resign because reality conflicts with the SJW world view of the momentum crowd.

stewski · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:36

Faustus said:
Well you did say 'before we became involved'. We have been involved in that region since the Crusades and what happened during that period is still (believe it or believe it not) an issue to this day.

I get what you meant now, no doubt some people are weird enough to look back that far. Though the more recent the involvement the greater the likely modern impact, I suspect.

stewski · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:38

dowie said:
Though I previously have voted labour I'm certainly not a fan of the current leadership/shadow cabinet... though I don't really see the issue with what she has said here, seemingly she's been pressured to resign because reality conflicts with the SJW world view of the momentum crowd.

Seemingly by the way she said she chose to not continue the distraction of equalities or seemingly by the way a conservative has attempted to call her statement a lie, for his own spin purposes?

Did you vote Labour or new Labour?