Barcelona Incident

Jokester said:
At either end of the spectrum groups will look to stifle debate and free speech, particularly criticism of their beliefs. All as bad as each other at that point.
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Precisely the point I was making in the Charlottesville thread.
You must want to bash a Nazis head in otherwise you're one of them.
You must rip down civil war statues of southern soldiers otherwise you're a racist.
You must
You must

It's almost akin to holocaust denial. Sorry folks, bad news, it happened. History shouldn't be deleted. Heroic actions and sacrifice shouldn't be forgotten because those in question are deemed to have fought on the wrong side. Many confederate soldiers would not have owned and could not have owned slaves but rather they fought for their country, homes, friends and families and yet their memory is being erased.

You know who else is really good at tearing down historical statues and monuments? ISIS and the Taliban.

We have people posting who are so blinded by their prejudices they've fallen in to this very trap. One of them even admitted it.
 
Dis86 said:
You know who else is really good at tearing down historical statues and monuments? ISIS and the Taliban.

We have people posting who are so blinded by their prejudices they've fallen in to this very trap. One of them even admitted it.
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I had this exact same discussion with a friend recently and they couldn't see the similarity. I later had the same discussion with my son and he understood it straight away. The difference between them is that one of them is still open minded enough to not have their judgement clouded by a lifetime of being told what to think.
 
LabR@t said:
Both sides equally as bad
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No they are not, there is no moral equivalence between the Neo-Nazis and Anti-Fascists, christ even most of the right wing commentators can realise that.

You are looking at one aspect, the use of violence, and applying that across the board and saying "see they are the same"

(and before you go all foamy at the mouth, I'm not defending the extreme left, extremes of anything are a problem) But if you look at the ideologies for their existence then there is no moral equivalence at all.

The extreme right want to use violence and and fascism against people they see as inferior to themselves based on racial traits, the extreme left want to use violence and fascism against the far right. See the difference? You don't choose to be born black, or Jewish and it hardly defines the individual or justifies the negative attitudes towards them.....but it is a conscious choice to be a Nazi, and if you do choose to be one then you are a **** and deserve to be treated like a **** and you deserve every negative attitude you receive.

And for the all ranting about the anti-fa at Charlotesville, by the multiple accounts of the local residents, it was by far and away the local community who were out in protest and defence about the Nazis and KKK coming into their town to spout racial hatred and bile

And we have many people on here defending their right to do that through 'absolute free speech' which I and the majority of people find ridiculous.
 
Freakbro said:
The extreme right want to use violence and and fascism against people they see as inferior to themselves based on racial traits,
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The extreme left used violence against them.

The extreme.left see those with right leaning views as inferior to themselves.

They are equally as bad.
 
I'm trying to find a source for a picture I've seen of all the lovely peaceful Nazis... all tooled up with assault rifles in camo gear. The notion that these people were there to peacefully protest seems pretty ridiculous. As has been said, they came to occupy the town and intimidate people.
 
Dis86 said:
The extreme left used violence against them.

The extreme.left see those with right leaning views as inferior to themselves.

They are equally as bad.
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No, they don't think they are inferior, they think their views of hatred and racism need stopping.

Again you are just looking at the use of violence as an equivalence with no other context.

So were the French resistance killing Nazis just as bad as the Nazis because they used violence?
 
Dis86 said:
Because they take those views as being inferior. Whether they are or not is moot. They THINK they are.
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I don't want to get into a semantic argument on the definition of a word but you should be able to see the difference between the ideologues of racial inferiority and the ideology of thinking someone else's ideology is unacceptable - which society has judged Nazism to be unnacceptable

See my edit above, are the French resistance just as bad as the Nazis because they both used violence?
 
Freakbro said:
I don't want to get into a semantic argument on the definition of a word but you should be able to see the difference between the ideologues of racial inferiority and the ideology of thinking someone else's ideology is unacceptable

See my edit above, are the French resistance just as bad as the Nazis because they both used violence?
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Depends on where you stand. I'm sure a lot of people saw them as terrorists, murderers and general scumbags. Others as heroes.
 
I do find it quite ironic that the 'moderate' right wingers feel the need to partially defend the rights of the extreme right, because they feel unjustifiably lumped in with them....are usually the same people who say there is no such thing as a 'moderate' Muslim and lump them all together (that's a general comment, not directed at you Dis)
 
Freakbro said:
No they are not, there is no moral equivalence between the Neo-Nazis and Anti-Fascists, christ even most of the right wing commentators can realise that.

You are looking at one aspect, the use of violence, and applying that across the board and saying "see they are the same"

(and before you go all foamy at the mouth, I'm not defending the extreme left, extremes of anything are a problem) But if you look at the ideologies for their existence then there is no moral equivalence at all.

The extreme right want to use violence and and fascism against people they see as inferior to themselves based on racial traits, the extreme left want to use violence and fascism against the far right. See the difference? You don't choose to be born black, or Jewish and it hardly defines the individual or justifies the negative attitudes towards them.....but it is a conscious choice to be a Nazi, and if you do choose to be one then you are a **** and deserve to be treated like a **** and you deserve every negative attitude you receive.

And for the all ranting about the anti-fa at Charlotesville, by the multiple accounts of the local residents, it was by far and away the local community who were out in protest and defence about the Nazis and KKK coming into their town to spout racial hatred and bile

And we have many people on here defending their right to do that through 'absolute free speech' which I and the majority of people find ridiculous.
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Finally, someone gets it.
 
Dis86 said:
Because they take those views as being inferior. Whether they are or not is moot. They THINK they are.
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You'd have a point of it was just about views, but Charlottesville wasn't. It was about heavily armed Nazis descending on a town to intimidate and threaten minorities. That's a whole different kettle of fish.
 
Vonhelmet said:
You'd have a point of it was just about views, but Charlottesville wasn't. It was about heavily armed Nazis descending on a town to intimidate and threaten minorities. That's a whole different kettle of fish.
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They were carrying legally owned weapons or. They didn't shoot any one. They didn't start the violence.

Again it's views vs actions. It is not ok to harm someone just because you don't like their views.
 
Dis86 said:
It's almost akin to holocaust denial. Sorry folks, bad news, it happened. History shouldn't be deleted. Heroic actions and sacrifice shouldn't be forgotten because those in question are deemed to have fought on the wrong side. Many confederate soldiers would not have owned and could not have owned slaves but rather they fought for their country, homes, friends and families and yet their memory is being erased.

You know who else is really good at tearing down historical statues and monuments? ISIS and the Taliban.

We have people posting who are so blinded by their prejudices they've fallen in to this very trap. One of them even admitted it.
Click to expand...
The statutes in question were erected decades after the Civil War to remind the local black population of who was in charge. They are not apolitical tributes to a generation's loss.

If a German town built a simple memorial listing the names of its war dead, I doubt many would object. If they erected a statue of Hitler or some general in the SS, the reaction would be different.

Lee wasn't Hitler but he betrayed his country, tortured his slaves and (in his later years as the head of a university) turned a blind eye to his students terrorising black people. If someone wants to honour the Confederate rank and file, I don't see how associating them with such a piece of **** is a good idea.
 
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