Question re. leisure flying altitudes & licensing --- Paramotoring ---

[Diddums]

First off, this looks absolutely amazeballs and I want one:

Now this guy flies up to 15k ft and at 2:25 in the video, he says his main focus is keeping an eye out for other air traffic. Surely this is illegal? 15k foot is some serious altitude and firmly in the commercial air traffic zone I would've thought.

I'd love to do this as a hobby but surely it can't be as easy as simply taking off on a field and flying around?

(obviously this was shot in the states but my question is more relevant to UK airspace obviously)

 

[Glaucus]

that is odd, his mcdonals one just came up on my suggetsed feed.
that does look incrediably fun though.

http://www.ppginfo.com/airlaw.html

seems rather lax outside of controlled airspace, I imagine the states has lots of open spaces and uk less so.
and another uk forum says no license required in uk

For the UK you have to comply with the Air Navigation Order, i.e. rules of the air, I imagine this is universal for any country.

Mainly the 500 foot rule (shall not fly closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure, except when taking off and landing). Shall give way to all other aircraft and are prohibited from controlled airspace.

Take off from almost anywhere with landowners permission.

No license, permit to fly, certification or medical required. Not sure whether 3rd part insurance is a legal requirement or not.

 

[Dynix]

The airspace above us is classed through various levels. Some classes of airspace you need permission to fly into, some you don't. I don't know anything about USA airspace but here in the Midlands I can fly up to about 10,000ft in some areas without having to speak to anyone or get any permission to do so. If you are that high you probably should get a relative service from a relevant radar controller! All aircraft (referred to as anything that can take to the sky) have to conform to the airspace rules so he is just in a particular area where it's uncontrolled.

Yesterday for example, I was having a bit of fun and flying (fixed wing, SEP) between 1,500ft - 6,000ft and could've gone up to 8-10,000 if I fancied it. I had my home aerodrome on the box but that was it.

Funny enough my neighbour recommended this video to me last night and I forgot about it, so will give it a watch

 

[DrToffnar]

As someone who sufferers from HORRENDOUS vertigo, I got to 03:32 and had to turn it off as my feet where starting to get especially sweaty xD

Amazing hobby to have though! I'd have thought it would be unsafe to be up that high without the appropriate breathing gear? Or is dependant on how far above sea level you are? I don't know how all that stuff works xD

 

[Gixer]

Airspace has been covered and I am pretty sure I watched this video some time ago. If he did meet commercial jet traffic as good as his lookout might be I think it would more come down to the commercial traffic seeing him and adjusting course to avoid. Can't imagine the thing he is flying in being able to change direction that quickly and closure speed would be fast.

Also he mentions hypoxia if I recall correctly but pretty sure he broke UK law going to FL150 without oxygen. This is the law that governs gliding:

Oxygen The Law On private flights, the commander shall take all reasonable steps to ensure that flight crew use oxygen if flying between FL100 and FL130 for more than 30 minutes, or at any time above FL130.

I'm unsure however what the law is in the USA.

 

[Glaucus]

hypoxia at 15000ft, many mountains normal people climb are much higher than that. You may get a slight headache as you are just into where people start to feel altitude sickness.

 

[Gixer]

hypoxia at 15000ft, many mountains normal people climb are much higher than that. You may get a slight headache as you are just into where people start to feel altitude sickness.

Very true however the exact reverse can happen and there will be those who will get hypoxia. Many climbers also spend some time at altitude to acclimatize themselves prior to high altitude stuff.

At FL150 granted you shall probably get away with it but if you don't and you don't realise the symptoms of hypoxia coming on it can all go South pretty quickly. Then you have a motorised paraglider flying around un-piloted at altitude. Hence the reason why the UK have the law I stated.

 

[Glaucus]

Very true however the exact reverse can happen and there will be those who will get hypoxia. Many climbers also spend some time at altitude to acclimatize themselves prior to high altitude stuff.

Not really, that's is pretty low and the climatisation stuff isn't really useful, it takes the body much longer to acclimatise than a day or two.
Take killanjaro which has extremely few drop outs due to altitude and that's just over 19000ft.

 

[Energize]

hypoxia at 15000ft, many mountains normal people climb are much higher than that. You may get a slight headache as you are just into where people start to feel altitude sickness.

It's a bit different when operating a vehicle, as your cognitive performance is affected at that altitude which makes it unsafe

It's like drinking alcohol, I can climb a mountain just fine after a few pints but driving a car no chance.

 

[Glaucus]

It's a bit different when operating a vehicle, as your cognitive performance is affected at that altitude which makes it unsafe

It's like drinking alcohol, I can climb a mountain just fine after a few pints but driving a car no chance.

so people don't drive in cities like la paz then.
you guys seem to think its really high altitude, it isn't.
again this has nothing to do with uk law, it was about him saying people get hypoxia at that level.

 

[ChroniC]

Having done a AFF skydive course, I can personally say that would end up being very boring, to me anyway. Skydiving isn't all that, didn't really get my adrenaline rushing tbh.
I would be pretty bored like when I went up in a hot air balloon. So boring I felt like jumping over.

Bunjee jumping is where it's at, sudden excessive rush from a intense fear of death. Much much more fun.

 

[dowie]

hypoxia at 15000ft, many mountains normal people climb are much higher than that. You may get a slight headache as you are just into where people start to feel altitude sickness.

you'd generally do some acclimatisation treks in the week or so before attempting something like that though

 

[Glaucus]

you'd generally do some acclimatisation treks in the week or so before attempting something like that though

you really don't. At most on your way up you hike high, sleep low. this has a limited result, as it takes far longer for your body to make the physicl changes to acclimatise.

 

[dowie]

you really don't. At most on your way up you hike high, sleep low. this has a limited result, as it takes far longer for your body to make the physicl changes to acclimatise.

no, it generally is advisable to do so

example advice:


http://www.highmountainguides.com/i...uently-Asked-Questions/Climb-Mont-Blanc-FAQ-s

What are the chances of getting Acute Mountain Sickness (AMS)?

It depends how much time you have for the ascent. When people try and rush to the summit on the first few days of their trip, their chances of getting AMS are unacceptably high. People who spend 2 weeks over the whole trip usually have a very good chance of acclimatising well, summiting safely and even enjoying the tough summit day. Climbers on 6 day trips usually acclimatise sufficiently to safely attempt the summit towards the end of the week but everyone is a little different when it comes to high altitude acclimatisation and the important thing is to listen to your body and act accordingly.

 

[Glaucus]

no, it generally is advisable to do so

example advice:


http://www.highmountainguides.com/i...uently-Asked-Questions/Climb-Mont-Blanc-FAQ-s

lol, no one does acclimatisation climbs for things like killamanjaro which are way above 15k ft.

 

[dowie]

lol, no one does acclimatisation climbs for things like killamanjaro which are way above 15k ft.

you don't generally do it in a single day for starters! If you're trekking over a week or so then my previous point applies... but anyway:

https://www.climbkilimanjaroguide.com/acclimatization-kilimanjaro/

Acute Mountain Sickness (AMS) (aka altitude sickness or altitude illness) and its severe variants, High Altitude Cerebral Edema (HACE) and High Altitude Pulmonary Edema (HAPE), are your biggest concerns on Mount Kilimanjaro.

On this page we have provided an overview on the process of acclimatization on Kilimanjaro, as well as detailed information on the types of altitude sickness symptoms you might experience on your trek.

 

[Glaucus]

you don't generally do it in a sinand asgle day for starters!

https://www.climbkilimanjaroguide.com/acclimatization-kilimanjaro/

and as i said spending several days is not particuelry worthwhile as it takes a while for the changes to happen.
also you can legally go up to 14k ft with no oxygen for 30mins in the states and that will have a huge safety net built in.
you are not goign to pass out or die at that height, it is not particularly high or dangerous.
No one spends time acclimatising for such hikes either. its when you want to summit the massive mountains that you need to spend several weeks or longer at high elevation.

 

[mistersprinkles]

I feel like mountain climbing is nothing more than access to bragging rights for the poorly endowed but that's JM2C.
Couldn't tell you why women do it.

 

[dowie]

and as i said spending several days is not particuelry worthwhile as it takes a while for the changes to happen.
also you can legally go up to 14k ft with no oxygen for 30mins in the states and that will have a huge safety net built in

well it seems that actual mountain guides don't agree with you and I know who I'd trust more...

Climbing Mont Blanc at the end of a week/6 days after some acclimatisation treks as advised by guides vs climbing it on the first day because Glaucus thinks AMS is just a headache...

 

[Glaucus]

Glaucus thinks AMS is just a headache...

lol, you do love to make stuff up don't you. That is not what I said.
and no its not my opinion, i was signed up to do killi and i looked at higher peaks before an injury, i read a lot around AS, so no its not my opinion, its the opinion of professional and research I looked into.
and lol you don't spend 6 days at elevation acclimatising. at maximum you send a day or two at significant height.