McDonalds workers due to strike for £10 an hour...

dowie · 21 Aug 2017 at 01:24

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...-walk-out-demanding-10-per-hour-a3615316.html

Staff at restaurants in Cambridge and Crayford voted overwhelmingly in favour of strike action, amid concerns over zero-hour contracts and working conditions.

They were demanding a wage of at least £10 per hour and more secure hours, and recognition of the right to form a trade union as employees of the company.

Jeremy Corbyn has shown his support to the workers who balloted to walk out, writing on Facebook: “I met with the Bakers’ Union and some of their members who work at McDonald’s.

“They explained that although they have long campaigned for better pay and working conditions, the corporation has not addressed their concerns.”

The Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union (BFAWU) said in statement: "Workers have found themselves living on low wages with no guarantee of hours.

I'm not really sure what to make of this, they're burger flippers FFS, they're exactly the sort of people the minimum wage was designed for! I mean if people in a literal "McJob" shouldn't get min wage* then who exactly should?

It isn't exactly a small company, if they want to earn more then just earn some more gold stars and work to become a supervisor or something - surely not too hard given the competition and the fact that plenty of co-workers will only be doing it as a part time gig or just temporarily until they find something better.

*OK I know they actually get ever so slightly more than the min wage and it can vary a bit between company and franchise owned stores but tis basically min wage.

Hagar · 21 Aug 2017 at 01:28

Possibly good news for Britains obesity crisis!

dowie · 21 Aug 2017 at 01:42

Well I think there is an argument for London to have a higher minimum wage or indeed for minimum wage to vary across regions - perhaps raising it a bit in London, Cambridge, the south east and perhaps even lowering it a bit in places up north.

But given that some jobs will earn the minimum an employer can pay (or close to it) I'd generally consider it not to be unreasonable for an entry level role at McDonalds to be one of those jobs.

Hotwired · 21 Aug 2017 at 01:47

Moses said:
And obviously the other part of their annoyance is their hours. So presumably they're contracted to far fewer hours than they ordinarily work, or something like that... so job insecurity in terms of money they get each month. Isn't that what the better paying supermarkets do? Pay the staff an okay amount per hour, but they have loads of staff all doing less than full time? Plus the union part.

It makes more sense when you consider London and Cambridge are relatively pricey.

The big supermarkets don't pay nearly £10 to basic staff.

Here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...above-national-living-wage-lidl-a7510751.html

Aldi tops them all by paying £8.53 as of Jan this year and the only bonus is for London.

Angilion · 21 Aug 2017 at 02:30

It's an unpleasant job in unpleasant conditions with horrible working hours that will harm you over time. Should that really be the lowest paid type of job and the type of job in which the people who do it get the smallest share of a large amount of profit made?

But that's only one part of it. It's also worth bearing in mind that they have to work to order - any time, any day, whatever they're ordered to work. So they have no regularity, no ability to plan things. Want to take a course that has classes on the same day each week? Hard luck. Etc. Maybe you'll be called in for a 2 hour shift, for which you'll be paid £14.10 or £15 and that will cost you £4 in bus fare and an hour in travel time and who's going to look after your child? Also, they have few or no contracted hours so they have no certainty of getting anything like an income anyone could live on and little likelihood of it. Even 40 hours a week at minimum wage is likely to be insufficient to live on unless you have some other income or you're living in your parents' home and hardly anyone in menial jobs gets 40 hours a week nowadays. 12 hours? Wouldn't even pay the rent, but that might be what they get some weeks. Or maybe less.

dowie · 21 Aug 2017 at 02:50

Moses said:
You're ignoring the point that the minimum wage isn't necessarily a living wage. That's the long and the short of it. Obviously it's legally fine for Mcdonalds to pay as close to the minimum as they can, but it's also fine for the employees to say they think they're worth more than that/it's not enough to live on/the combination of pay and hours means they're below a reasonable quality of life.

I'm not ignoring that it isn't necessarily a 'living wage' - I've proposed that perhaps the min wage ought to be adjusted regionally. Yes of course it is fine for employees to think they deserve more but we're talking about a job that doesn't really require much more than the ability to follow basic instructions and carry out a boring repetitive task - that really isn't worth much and there are plenty of people out there willing to do it. Their desire to be paid more is perhaps unrealistic given the low skilled nature of the job and the fact that they're easily replaceable.

Angilion said:
It's an unpleasant job in unpleasant conditions with horrible working hours that will harm you over time. Should that really be the lowest paid type of job and the type of job in which the people who do it get the smallest share of a large amount of profit made?

I don't see why not - it is a job that almost anyone could do, what sort of work should be paid minimum if not this? Plenty of basic jobs requiring no virtually skills are unpleasant. Not all of them are flipping burgers either some are simply working on tills. Plenty are part time workers or just taking the job on temporarily, on the other hand it is perfectly possible for someone to make a career and progress at a place like McDonalds, in fact there is probably a bit of an edge in attempting to do so given that many will just treat it as a temporary gig.

Zefan · 21 Aug 2017 at 05:04

The story here is that, a lot of the time, the minimum wage is not enough given the circumstances it is paid under. It is not about McDonald's employees thinking they're special. This is simply a motivated workforce doing what they can to improve their lives.

The real thread-worthy question is why are so many people on minimum wage not taking action like that displayed in this case?

Rroff · 21 Aug 2017 at 05:11

Zefan said:
the minimum wage is not enough given the circumstances it is paid under

The only thing IMO that has really changed that is the increased cost of living in respect to certain things - if it wasn't for a moderate increase in the price of food (somewhat indirectly due to changes in quantity/price) and in some cases a horrific increase in rent or similar min wage would pay for a lifestyle commensurate with what you'd expect from that kind of jobs that tend to pay it - sure we'd all like to get more for less :s

EDIT: Though increased cost of utilities and in some cases transport are starting to make inroads into that as well.

hyperseven · 21 Aug 2017 at 05:20

if the miners didn't buy all the GPUs they wouldn't be doing this, always dem miners.

Efour · 21 Aug 2017 at 05:25

Zefan said:
The story here is that, a lot of the time, the minimum wage is not enough given the circumstances it is paid under. It is not about McDonald's employees thinking they're special. This is simply a motivated workforce doing what they can to improve their lives.

The real thread-worthy question is why are so many people on minimum wage not taking action like that displayed in this case?

I agree. Rather than attempting to belittle the people for having lesser jobs that "anyone can do" why not look at the real issues. Companies in the UK pay wages that don't even cover the cost of living...

Freakbro · 21 Aug 2017 at 05:27

It also looks motivated from the McDonald's staff from the US who have been having exactly the same strikes and walk outs for $15 / hr

So McDonald's have started to roll out the use of automated cashiers even more, not that that will lead to lay offs say McDonalds

Freakbro · 21 Aug 2017 at 05:31

Efour said:
I agree. Rather than attempting to belittle the people for having lesser jobs that "anyone can do" why not look at the real issues. Companies in the UK pay wages that don't even cover the cost of living...

Isn't that what the NLW is supposed to address?

So instead of companies paying low wages with the burden falling on the state to top it up with tax credits, the rise to £9 / Hr is to force companies to still pay crap wages but now the workers won't be eligible for tax credits, genius!

Begbie · 21 Aug 2017 at 05:38

dowie said:
Well I think there is an argument for London to have a higher minimum wage or indeed for minimum wage to vary across regions - perhaps raising it a bit in London, Cambridge, the south east and perhaps even lowering it a bit in places up north.

But given that some jobs will earn the minimum an employer can pay (or close to it) I'd generally consider it not to be unreasonable for an entry level role at McDonalds to be one of those jobs.

I'm sure that will go down well.

Spook187 · 21 Aug 2017 at 06:42

dowie said:
perhaps even lowering it a bit in places up north..

Are you out of your mind, how much lower do you want the people in the north to go down to, do you really think we all are a bunch of freeloaders with no bills to pay just because we happen to live in the north, burger flipper or not they still need a living wage not less.

TallPaul1878 · 21 Aug 2017 at 06:54

Good for them. Why are we all in a race to the bottom?

Zero hour contracts are nothing but exploitation. If a company that size can't assure it's employees a regular set of part time or full time hours then they shouldn't be in business. Zero hour contracts exist simply as a way for employers to bypass the rights of their employees. When I was a 17 year old I had plenty of part time "pocket money" jobs. They all had proper 16 hour contracts and I regularly worked more than that.

£10 an hour IS overvaluing their worth in that job but they're entitled to demand it and I hope they get it.

It's funny how in capitalism the corporations are allowed to enjoy the full benefits of their profits but as soon as the employees demand a portion of those profits more in line with what their work makes for the company then all hell is to pay.

TallPaul1878 · 21 Aug 2017 at 06:57

I believe something like this happened at a Next store.

Staff were asking for better terms and conditions. More than just minimum wage.

The chief executive was adamant it would put the business under, prices would sky rocket.

It turns out that "sky rocket" would be about the equivalent of £2 on a £40 per of jeans sort of increase.

FurryLemon · 21 Aug 2017 at 07:10

Even £10/hour is poverty money.

Tefal · 21 Aug 2017 at 07:15

Moses said:
You're ignoring the point that the minimum wage isn't necessarily a living wage. That's the long and the short of it. Obviously it's legally fine for Mcdonalds to pay as close to the minimum as they can, but it's also fine for the employees to say they think they're worth more than that/it's not enough to live on/the combination of pay and hours means they're below a reasonable quality of life.

is a basic job at mcdonalds meant to be a "living" job though?

or is it meant to be temporary work for 16 year olds/students?

Tefal · 21 Aug 2017 at 07:17

TallPaul1878 said:
I believe something like this happened at a Next store.

Staff were asking for better terms and conditions. More than just minimum wage.

The chief executive was adamant it would put the business under, prices would sky rocket.

It turns out that "sky rocket" would be about the equivalent of £2 on a £40 per of jeans sort of increase.

a 5% increase in prices is pretty big and customers may go elsewhere.

Armageus · 21 Aug 2017 at 07:31

It's all well and good people wanting the minimum/living wage to be raised (again), but surely it ends up being a cyclical problem, whereby every time it gets increase, companies then have to increase the cost of their products/services, and people on minimum wage end up no better off. Those above minimum wage lose out, as e.g. the price of bread has to increase to cover this increase, but don't necessarily receive an equivalent pay rise.