McDonalds workers due to strike for £10 an hour...

[Rroff]

i'll take a strong guess that he wasn't earning £7 an hour and the cost of a franchise wasn't a million quid.

it's easy to do with things like subway with like a £40K franchise cost but not mc donalds with their million plus

No he was earning quite a bit less than £7/h initially point is even in McD's someone would work their way up not just launch into a franchise straight from the shop floor. TBH I have no idea on the franchise cost in this case though I'd hazard that it is at least in the 100s of thousands if not million plus.

 

[MrMarvelous]

Around here most workers have been replaced by touch screen order points.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Where are you getting £1million plus from?

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/People/Franchising.html/what-you-will-need.html

i'd like you to try and build a mc donalds in london for £500K. it's £500k in a place like the suburbs of Glasgow. Easily triple that in London. I take it the rights to every major city are gone so you can get one in a village for £250K or a big village for £530K.

you then have to give 30% of your profits away every month too. no wonder you aren't seeing more mc donalds opening up at the rate they have in the past.

 

[tom_e]

i'd like you to try and build a mc donalds in london for £500K. it's £500k in a place like the suburbs of Glasgow. Easily triple that in London. I take it the rights to every major city are gone so you can get one in a village for £250K or a big village for £530K.

you then have to give 30% of your profits away every month too. no wonder you aren't seeing more mc donalds opening up at the rate they have in the past.

So a franchise isn't over a million pounds unless you want it to be.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Taking it off topic a bit but touching more on automation and their claim that it wont mean they will employ less.

The ones I have been to that have introduced touch screens, seem like they have just moved staff from the tills and to the kitchen and instead of preparing loads of each popular item to be packed and sold immediately as it is bought, it looks like they try to make up burgers as they are ordered, while keeping only a few of the popular ones already made and good to go.

This means that after club/pub and lunchtime rushes seem to clog the place up and have people waiting up to 15 minutes for food.

 

[tom_e]

Taking it off topic a bit but touching more on automation and their claim that it wont mean they will employ less.

The ones I have been to that have introduced touch screens, seem like they have just moved staff from the tills and to the kitchen and instead of preparing loads of each popular item to be packed and sold immediately as it is bought, it looks like they try to make up burgers as they are ordered, while keeping only a few of the popular ones already made and good to go.

This means that after club/pub and lunchtime rushes seem to clog the place up and have people waiting up to 15 minutes for food.

Yep that's their new direction, freshly prepared food to try and come up against the more "gourmet" fast food places.

 

[BDEE]

I'm not really sure what to make of this, they're burger flippers FFS, they're exactly the sort of people the minimum wage was designed for! I mean if people in a literal "McJob" shouldn't get min wage* then who exactly should?

Would you like to be any more derogatory to a large group of hardworking people or are you done with that opening statement?

As it happens I worked there for 2 years earning £3.85 an hour (it was many years ago to be fair). I was in college and it helped me with some cash in my pocket for the weekend.

It is a tough job. You get abuse off the public because they think it is OK to look down on you because "you are just a burger flipper". You stink all the time. You have to work shifts with some taking you well into the early hours (some stores now 24hr opening as well). It's not an easy job regardless of what people think. The average person on the street would fail at it very quickly.

They also offer some of the best management training around, which helped me start off in the career I am in now and I am now a top 20% earner. Many of the people I worked with have gone on to have very successful careers.

As far as the pay goes - I guess it depends on your circumstances. I didn't need to earn a fortune because I lived at home. It was what it was and I accepted that I was getting good work experience. For people who rely on it as an income is a different matter.

Regardless of the pay aspect, this thread highlights a different issue in this country - The total lack of respect for people where some see them as "below them" or in a derisory job.

 

[dowie]

hahahhahahaha that isn't how mc donalds works.

a franchise is a million pounds how many people do you know on £7 an hour where a bank will say yeah heres a million quid for a franchise.

wrong:

quote from article posted below

Buying a McDonald’s restaurant typically costs between £150,000 and £400,000, and the buyer will need 25pc in cash, with the rest made up from a bank loan.

And I never suggested it for people earning £7 an hour but people who are progressing through the company, have become managers.

and with a franchise the highest you can go is from toilet cleaner to store manager unless the franchisee has loads then possibly regional manager. those franchises are their own entity away from the corporation.

it's not as if you can do anything innovative either. it's a franchise you have to play by their rules. you cannot all of a sudden decide to do two for tuesdays on mcdonalds happy meals, etc. it's set by the company itself. so a store manager is just managing staff, they don't need to do much in terms of coming up with new ideas, etc. it's all motivation and people management. whereas in a proper business they would.

Yes I'm aware of what a franchise is thanks.

There will be people in senior positions in corporate who've worked in various jobs from the shop floor upwards (some of these may have gone to university some not), there will be franchise owners who've spent years working in the restaurants too - this is fairly common in fast food franchises to have franchise owners with actual management experience - in cases like McDonalds it is rather encouraged that franchise owners have relevant experience as they're picky about who they will sell to in terms of past experience.

some examples from various fast food joints in the article below not just McDonalds:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...dden-army-of-successful-fast-food-owners.html

Khan first became a franchisee in 2002, when he bought a store in Chingford where he had been manager for the best part of a decade.

Rachel Shaw, who owns two Subway stores in Greater London, opened the first after 17 years working at McDonald’s head office. Shaw, who wanted more flexibility and to be her own boss, was attracted to Subway because she considered the brand a healthier alternative to other chains.

“It was quite scary taking the plunge. You have to invest a lot of money, and you pay for everything from uniforms to local marketing,” she says. The typical cost of opening a Subway store is £100,000, and 70pc of this can be covered by a bank loan.

Haitham Alani, who moved to the UK from Iraq in the 1990s and now owns 48 Domino’s Pizza outlets, says the biggest challenge is finding staff.

In affluent areas, it is hard to find people willing to work the unsociable hours. But he says more young people are considering catering and restaurant work as a career, adding that store managers can earn £50,000 a year.

“Many of our managers started either as pizza makers or answering the phones. Some have worked with me for over 20 years.

If you can earn £50k as a store manager in say Dominos you can, after a few years, quite likely use your proven management experience to persuade a bank to land you money for a franchise! Fact people have done and do still do this, it is a risk (obviously) but when it pays off then some of these people can become pretty well off.

Fact is though even working up to a position earning £50k a year is much better than the UK average wage. The above just reinforces my point, people turn their noses up at this industry but given the sorts of people working there at the entry level there is likely a decent edge if you're hard working and ambitious - seems like you'll probably get to supervisor or junior management positions simply through time served if you're hard working. Ditto to graduates joining say McDonalds, it is a big company and AFAIK you're also wrong re: careers being capped at store manager level, IIRC these people can work for a franchise and continue in to progress their careers in the company.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Yep that's their new direction, freshly prepared food to try and come up against the more "gourmet" fast food places.

The thing is, its the same people who walk through their doors. I don't think this direction is going to get them anywhere without some changes to the menu. Yeah they have introduced a few better burgers but i dont see it turning anyone away from anywhere else.

Also without sounding a bit like an old boy, i dont recall ever feeling the need to go hang out at places like KFC and McDonalds as a teen for hours, something i see everytime i walk in or past these places. Why kid would want to loiter around these junk food places beyond a quick bite is beyond me.

If only there were more Wimpys

 

[dowie]

Would you like to be any more derogatory to a large group of hardworking people or are you done with that opening statement?

Sorry if you feel that way but (some) quite literally are burger flippers and it literally is a "McJob", I don't think there is anything derogatory about highlighting that it is a basic job. The amount of effort required isn't particularly relevant here, I don't doubt that it is hard work, that doesn't mean it deserves significantly more than min wage!

Regardless of the pay aspect, this thread highlights a different issue in this country - The total lack of respect for people where some see them as "below them" or in a derisory job.

No lack of respect from here just some realism, it is a job with a low barrier to entry and no shortage in the number of people willing to do it. It is a basic job, I'm not saying that to belittle people starting out or earning some money part time but to emphasise why minimum wage is appropriate. It isn't just some job comparable to a "McJob" (I'd describe some of my first part time jobs while at college as "McJobs") but in this case it literally is a "McJob" we're talking about, getting offended at that is a bit silly.

 

[Shocky-FM]

Do I think it's right that I earn a lot more sat in a comfy office doing my "skilled" work than my nearing retirement dad does breaking his backside in a grubby factory doing shifts and tiring physical labour. Not really but as you said welcome to the real world.

Flawed analogy, everyone's circumstances and priorities are different, Age itself is not a factor. It would be equally unfair for an 68 year old with no qualifications or experience to walk into McDonalds and come away earning 21K year flipping burgers.

 

[h4rm0ny]

There's already quite a bit of automation across Europe. Any newly fitted McDonalds now has self-service ordering points. These were a blessing when i was in Italy, as you could swap it to English and not have to worry about trying to tell the server what you're trying to order.

The result of these machines means less staff needing to work behind the till and more focused towards cooking/preparing/serving the food.

I honestly can't see how this wont lead to fewer staff. Unless they actually start making the burgers out of people, you're going be hiring fewer of them. Any counters to this are I suspect at least partly driven by PR until automated serving is routine.

i'd like you to try and build a mc donalds in london for £500K. it's £500k in a place like the suburbs of Glasgow. Easily triple that in London. I take it the rights to every major city are gone so you can get one in a village for £250K or a big village for £530K.

you then have to give 30% of your profits away every month too. no wonder you aren't seeing more mc donalds opening up at the rate they have in the past.

Can it really be that much of a draw to be a McDonald's that it's worth 20% - 30% of your profits? I would have thought if anything being a unique and swisher looking burger place would be a selling point if anything.

Yep that's their new direction, freshly prepared food to try and come up against the more "gourmet" fast food places.

Good luck with that. Freshly assembled isn't the same as fresh. If the ingredients are the same then I don't see it makes much difference whether it was made five minutes ago or five days ago and frozen.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Relative to the size of its workforce, McDonalds is not so profitable that it can afford much of an increase.

Also making less and less money every year. Have you seen the actual net profit margin on McD's, its tiny. Revenues are massive but profit is very little. Having been a manger at one of these I can tell you hourly labour makes up around 16-19% of turnover. That doesn't include salaried staff (store manager plus 2-4 deputies) or head office/area manager costs. Putting the wages up makes a huge difference to profitability. It is such a sensitive cost they measure it in real time. If you don't meet the budget it has serious consequences for the stores bottom line.

Letting agents and landlord/ladies... Money for old rope.

No its not, most landlords make next to no money from the rent. The problem is the actual cost/supply of housing.

McDonalds is supposedly one of the hardest franchises to get...not just a case of having enough money

They will not sell you a franchise unless you know the business.

i'd like you to try and build a mc donalds in london for £500K. it's £500k in a place like the suburbs of Glasgow. Easily triple that in London. I take it the rights to every major city are gone so you can get one in a village for £250K or a big village for £530K.

you then have to give 30% of your profits away every month too. no wonder you aren't seeing more mc donalds opening up at the rate they have in the past.

The days of getting a easy McDonald's franchise are long gone as most of the stores are already taken and the really profitable stores are kept in house.

New stores are not opening up because the demand just isn't there... peoples disposable incomes are being squeezed (whole point of the thread) or are moving more up market (5 Guys etc). Mcdonald's has a purpose but it is getting really expensive, especially when you consider their offer vs something like Weatherpersons. I'm only 30 and I can remember paying £3.19 for a meal. It is now £4.89 at my local (in Norfolk!)

Good luck with that. Freshly assembled isn't the same as fresh. If the ingredients are the same then I don't see it makes much difference whether it was made five minutes ago or five days ago and frozen.

The only thing that is frozen is the meat and fries, it makes a huge difference between getting something sat in the heater to 10 mins than it does getting it freshly assembled. I don't know about you but I prefer my lettuce not to be limp.

 

[sports_brah]

Personally I think Mcdonalds staff do a good job. It can be extremely hectic, customer (client lolololol) facing, having to deal with issues, remember orders in a fast paced environment. Still I wouldn't say its worth that much money.

The bit which has been exploited and is very unfair is the variable hours. It's convenient for a small number of people, the rest it introduces massive uncertainty and empowers bosses too much. Make an issue? You're down to 10 hrs this week. James the arse licker is up to 40 hrs now. Don't like it? Leave, I'll get someone else, seeing as the industry attracts temps..

 

[NooBish AbbZ]

Many thousands of people who would jump straight into their jobs if they want to strike, surely?

Many people seem to love the idea of a £10 minimum wage, until they actually think about ti and realise everything else would become more expensive and make it redundant..

 

[Tefal]

Can't have everyone doing it because the more in debt they are, the more fear they contain about unemployment.

So rather convenient then that almost everyone at that age has some sort of debt then .

I thought you had to be 18 to even take out a debt?

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Benefits system sounds like it needs a massive reshake. You should never be discouraged from getting a job or working more hours because it'll cut your benefits and make you worse off.

No wonder we have so many benefit spongers.

At one point a few years ago, I knew my ex wife was on comparable money to me (£30k) even though she only worked 2 days a week. The low income tax credits, child tax credits and the child maintenance I paid all added up quickly and basically made it so that she'd be WORSE off for working. Crazy when you think I was working full time and she was working 2 days.

This is just one example, but I've heard lots of stories of people who want to work but don't because of the benefit system basically giving them more money to stay at home. Madness.

 

[ultralaser]

They heat up food delivered in boxes, it's almost the definition of what should be the lowest paid job. £10 a hour is just lol.

 

[Hades]

You're going to have to provide evidence that the inflationary effect would cancel out the pay increase. You'll struggle.

What he says seems logical at least in part. A higher minimum wage would push some people into the basic rate tax band. Some may lose tax credits (I'm guessing on that one as I don't know much about tax credits). But everyone previously just above minimum wage would then demand a pay rise as they would now be just on the minimum. The people a little above them would see "lower" jobs paid close to theirs and ask for a pay rise, and so on.

It will have an impact on taxation and inflation. So while it may help overall it probably won't help the lowest paid as much as they hope.

I think it's outrageous how little many have to live on today, especially considering rising living costs. I also do think the minimum wage will have to rise soon. But I don't think it will help people as much as they hope.

 

[Semple]

New stores are not opening up because the demand just isn't there... peoples disposable incomes are being squeezed (whole point of the thread) or are moving more up market (5 Guys etc). Mcdonald's has a purpose but it is getting really expensive, especially when you consider their offer vs something like Weatherpersons. I'm only 30 and I can remember paying £3.19 for a meal. It is now £4.89 at my local (in Norfolk!)

That's an interesting comment, it was only the other week i was in KFC buying 2 meals and it came to about £16. Didn't think much about it at the time, but later on it kind of struck me as to how expensive it actually was. You could go to a restaurant and get a sit down meal for not much more than that.