12-year-old boy who transitioned to female changes his mind two years later

To be honest I think most of these cases are the parents playing one upmanship.

My child can't possibly be normal and boring he must have something, bit like the so called thousands of children that are suffering from allergies without any medical proof.

It'll just get more and more ridiculous as trans whatever becomes normal, bit like when being gay was seen as mainstream the transsexual all started popping up.

We need to stop telling people that they are all special and unique as they have a he'll of a shock when real life comes around and kicks the carp out of them.

If you want your kid to be special invest in them, i.e. get them music lessons or additional classes outside of school.

People want their kids to be unique and special without putting in the leg work.
 
Hades said:
I guess one of the issue with waiting until the child is 18 is that they have already been through puberty at that point. Making the change before puberty might be more successful physically?

I still think they should wait until adults though as the risk of a wrong decision is too high in my view.
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The thing is though puberty goes a long way towards gender development so I don't think we should be playing god beforehand on the off chance that they might identify differently all the way into adulthood. I bet the pharmaceutical industry are doing well out of it though.

I agree that it shouldn't be allowed until they are responsible adults. What next? breast enlargements for teens? I joke now but it's all getting a bit silly.
 
For me, gender is determined by DNA and chromosomes. Not just what you looks like on the outside. Unless you can change that (which you can't), you can't actually change your gender...
 
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Nasher said:
For me, gender is determined by DNA and chromosomes. Not just what you looks like on the outside. Unless you can change that, you can't change your gender
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Chromosomes can get quite complicated. XY and XX aren't the only pairings. Sometimes people can even have a mix.

As for the original story, there's the problem with private medical care. The patient gets whatever they want. From what I've read, the NHS never would have given hormones in this case.

But let's also not pretend that other illnesses can't be misdiagnosed. This story doesn't mean that gender disphoria isn't a real condition.
 
"your boy's got breasts"

Probably the accent that helped but that had me in stitches.
 
Nasher said:
For me, gender is determined by DNA and chromosomes. Not just what you looks like on the outside. Unless you can change that (which you can't), you can't actually change your gender...
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Sex it's determined by DNA (but it's not as simple as XX Xy). Gender is an entirely different, and more complex kettle of fish.
 
CosmicClown said:
Hopefully they now begin to recognize that this gender dysmorphia thing is a form of mental illness and treat as such.
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As mentioned, gender is more about 'gender role' these days and since we're all equality-driven, I reckon more and more people are unsure what role they have in society... which they're then confusing with what 'sex' they are, so go get their bits chopped off because they want to be a nurse and think they have to be female to do it, or whatever.

So less an actual mental illness and more of a CBT/understanding this changing society thing, not that society is being particularly good at helping them resolve their issues either. So while there are some who genuinely believe they're in the wrong body, and also some who genuinely do have a mental illness of some kind, I think the majority are just 'misinformed' as to where and how they fit into the world today.
 
Nasher said:
For me, gender is determined by DNA and chromosomes. Not just what you looks like on the outside. Unless you can change that (which you can't), you can't actually change your gender...
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Which leads to the key question - "why?"

You've stated your position clearly. Can you provide reasoning to support it?

I can provide evidence and reasoning to prove your position as stated is false. It's a simple fact of biology that even sex, which is biological, isn't directly determined by DNA and chromosomes (the main driving factor is the mixture of hormones the foetus is exposed to at the relevant time during gestation and how the foetus reacts to those hormones). Gender, which is a mixture of socialisation, fashion, psychology and trends (i.e. things that don't apply to any individual person) is a very different thing indeed and can't possibly be solely and directly determined by "DNA and chromosomes". It's not even clear which of the trends have any basis in biology and if so to what extent they are biological and to what extent they are social. Even legitimate studies can't really determine that because they can't screen out the effects of socialisation (which starts from birth at the latest). To test it properly, you'd have to isolate thousands of children from birth in a carefully constructed ungendered environment and imprison them there until adulthood, which would be wildly unethical even if it was possible.
 
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Nasher said:
Sex and gender are the same thing..

Sexuality is something different.
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They are very different things:

Sex: Biology/physiology. Surprisingly difficult to really nail down a precise definition, but almost always male or female. The key point being that this is a purely physical thing.

Gender: Anything and everything that is in any way associated with a sex to any extent for any reason. For example, clothing covering a person's legs without covering each leg seperately is current gendered extremely feminine in England. Why? No reason, it just is. It has no real connection to sex. In other times and/or places, it has been or is ungendered. Pink was gendered strongly masculine here and very quickly switched to being gendered extremely feminine. Tights, high heels and lacy frippery were initially gendered masculine before changing gender very strongly. Etc, etc. The few gendered things that do have a real connection to sex are always trends and should never be considered to have any application to any individual. Height, for example, is quite strongly gendered by biology rather than by socialisation.

Of course there are people who want to promote the idea that the two are the same, which serves to promote sexist stereotyping. But they're wrong.
 
Oh jeeze these threads always descend into semantics....

Can we just agree situations like this indicate much more care should be taken in these scenarios where the procedure is irreversible.

I have no problem with a boy say taking hormone blockers to delay puberty then once they are of age make a decision. But letting a child effectively make such a life changing decision? it's madness. The problem is though if the government came around and said ok look we're putting an age restriction on this stuff all the SJW's would froth at the mouth. But when you have a situation like this where it has screwed up a child's life they are all silent.
 
Tunney said:
Chromosomes can get quite complicated. XY and XX aren't the only pairings. Sometimes people can even have a mix.
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And that is regarded as a medical condition, which usually brings with it a host of additional issues such as infertility. Also, most people with these chromosomal issues are not transsexuals, so it's not really a factor.
 
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