TVR?
- Thread starter Hxc
- Start date
Yea your just not going to see the difference in performance, unless you take it to a track AND you have pro racing driver skills to knock off those few half seconds a lap. So take the more fun option.
Manual versions of performance cars hold their value better too
Manual versions of performance cars hold their value better too
Yea your just not going to see the difference in performance, unless you take it to a track AND you have pro racing driver skills to knock off those few half seconds a lap. So take the more fun option.
Manual versions of performance cars hold their value better too
Do they? A quick look at E9x M3's shows the DCT equipped ones are fetching more money than manuals. True when auto's were junk and killed the word performance and fun, but the modern ones are every bit as quick if not faster and make them much quicker in real world, they are also fun too, well I quite enjoy pulling paddles.
Interestingly BMW have dropped the M-DCT on the current M5 going with the same ZF8HP box that the other 5ers use. I wouldn't be surprised if the next M3/4 goes the same way, especially with the rumors that the next 3 will be automatic only.
That is a shame.
But have they done it maybe for power/torque reasons?
We know the ZF8HP is silly strong, it can handle 1000lb/ft of torque, why Dodge put it in the Hellcat and Demon.
I've also heard a rumour that BMW might be releasing an M2 CS/CSL if that is true then that could be the car to tempt me from a new Mustang, even though it will be blown it should still be awesome and have M-DCT, but with BMW's recent pricing on limited models I suspect it will no doubt be over 100k, if its around 65-70k I might seriously consider one as I know new Mustang is going to cost me close to 50k which won't hold its money but an M2 CS would probably appreciate if the rumour of only 1000 is true.
My fun car is also my daily but I would still prefer the manual. I know a manual is never going to be as relaxing to use as an automatic, but at the same time, I've never found it hard, or frustrating, or obstructive to use, even in traffic. I find it only a minor inconvenience, and I'm happy to bear it for the majority of my daily driving (which is motorway/dual carriageway anyway) so I get to enjoy it when I want to.
Different strokes and all that. I don't consider myself superior or more alpha or anything. Just prefer the interaction and I'm not interested in ultimate performance
Different strokes and all that. I don't consider myself superior or more alpha or anything. Just prefer the interaction and I'm not interested in ultimate performance
That is a shame.
But have they done it maybe for power/torque reasons?
We know the ZF8HP is silly strong, it can handle 1000lb/ft of torque, why Dodge put it in the Hellcat and Demon.
I've also heard a rumour that BMW might be releasing an M2 CS/CSL if that is true then that could be the car to tempt me from a new Mustang, even though it will be blown it should still be awesome and have M-DCT, but with BMW's recent pricing on limited models I suspect it will no doubt be over 100k, if its around 65-70k I might seriously consider one as I know new Mustang is going to cost me close to 50k which won't hold its money but an M2 CS would probably appreciate if the rumour of only 1000 is true.
I there are a few things behind the decision. Originally making a torque converter box with a large number of gears had quite a penalty in terms of weight and bulk so going double clutch gave an advantage. This is no longer as compelling as the new torque converter boxes have become smaller and lighter. Shift speed of torque converter boxes have become nearly as good as those on double clutchers as well.
When it comes to just being an auto, torque converters are vastly superior. They ease through traffic in a way that is very difficult to replicate with clutches. BMW (and Audi) are focussing to an extent to the driveability of their M and RS cars and auto-clutched boxes just don't compete.
Myself and another member from here had some fun on a Welsh mountain road or two and my DCT box vs his manual box was enough to even out the relatively large power differences between the two cars. I'm completely convinced that like for like any human would be faster in any realistic "spirited driving" situation with a modern auto vs a manual. In my view, there's no value at all in moving a stick around for 99.9999% of the driving population.
Completely agree. When I am on a track day or drive out in the Mustang, after I've had my 10 minutes adrenaline rush pushing the car to the max and messing around with that stupid 3rd pedal I will get totally fedup and annoyed, just plonk the car in a higher gear and use engine torque, ultimately resulting in me going slower and using my horsepower / torque advantage to keep up. It just gets boring for me personally and hence I just get lazy and stay in the higher gear.
With paddles this does not happen, I keep the car on the boil at all times and as such stay faster and also more consistent, not only that I enjoy it more too, of course not everyone is the same and I do understand how some people love the extra work of a manual, but for me personally I find a decent auto with paddles more enjoyable and faster, particular over longer stints.
Yes, modern autos are faster than manual boxes.
Who cares though? You're going to go measure 2 10th's of a second differences on a backroad full of potholes and farmers in tractors?
Even if you are, a decent traction control system will make you even more faster yet again, but by that point what's there to enjoy? May as well just load up Gran Turismo if you're going to simulate everything.
Nobody cares if you prefer autos, the new TVR doesn't come with one so go buy something else - Or just keep making excuses trying to justify why some mass produced, boring budget American sports car is somehow better than a bespoke English built one full of character. Suit yourself.
The speed eight singing out loud cresting a peak at sunrise, hitting the rev limiter and snapping fourth just as the sun gleams full bright over the hills... Nothing beats stuff like that. nothing. "Oh but my DSG could have done that shift 117 milliseconds quicker" - Good one, go have a pull over your technical specification spreadsheets, nobody cares.
Who cares though? You're going to go measure 2 10th's of a second differences on a backroad full of potholes and farmers in tractors?
Even if you are, a decent traction control system will make you even more faster yet again, but by that point what's there to enjoy? May as well just load up Gran Turismo if you're going to simulate everything.
Nobody cares if you prefer autos, the new TVR doesn't come with one so go buy something else - Or just keep making excuses trying to justify why some mass produced, boring budget American sports car is somehow better than a bespoke English built one full of character. Suit yourself.
The speed eight singing out loud cresting a peak at sunrise, hitting the rev limiter and snapping fourth just as the sun gleams full bright over the hills... Nothing beats stuff like that. nothing. "Oh but my DSG could have done that shift 117 milliseconds quicker" - Good one, go have a pull over your technical specification spreadsheets, nobody cares.
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You do realise your beloved TVR is full of budget American parts, its why the interior looks so cheap and nasty, you know its got most of the stuff from inside a Fiesta in it, for 90k they could have done far better, the interior is really not upto TVR standards of the past. Also most of the running gear is American also, Gen2 Coyote Mustang engine, Tremec XL gear box so you should not be knocking those budget American cars, most of this TVR is not English, it comprises of American parts then all spannered together by a group of guys in a garage somewhere.
Not everyone enjoys a manual, some people get just as much fun from cars with paddles, you know some of the most enjoyable, most hardcore cars have paddles including a lot of very track focused stuff.
Also as I was responding to someone else and not you it does seem other people do care about such subjects. Its a discussion forum where people discuss things, get over it.
It's a TVR. How are you still not understanding what a TVR is? The interior is cheap and nasty... Yes... It's a TVR. Been in a Cerbera? It's like something out of a Max Power magazine. How does it go, how does it handle, does it have a road presence and how does it sound are what makes a TVR. If it was an M3 and you were complaining about the interior or lack of auto options sure, but this isn't an M3, it's a bloody TVR.
It's like complaining that a Lotus 7 isn't watertight.
Yes it's probably got a lot of roadnoise, yes it probably doesn't have the latest "tech", yes it probably doesn't have adaptive climate control or radar cruise control or reversing cameras and it will have a heavy clutch - All things which TVR buyers won't give two hoots about. The people that do can stick to their ASX's and Santa Fe's.
It's like complaining that a Lotus 7 isn't watertight.
Yes it's probably got a lot of roadnoise, yes it probably doesn't have the latest "tech", yes it probably doesn't have adaptive climate control or radar cruise control or reversing cameras and it will have a heavy clutch - All things which TVR buyers won't give two hoots about. The people that do can stick to their ASX's and Santa Fe's.
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So why is it 90k then? That does not seem very TVR, were they not great value for money cars with super car beating performance? 90k price tag seems to take it out of this bracket.
Also my response was to another member talking about auto boxes, he was not directly referring to TVR, its a forum, people discuss things and thats not going to stop just because you want it too.
My post eludes to the point being futile, not to stop bleating on about it. You're free to discuss things however you want, just like everyone else, why would I want to stop that.
We don't know enough about the car to know why it's £90k, hand building cars ain't cheap. Bespoke is bespoke. Why is a Norton Dominator £30k? Still sold like hotcakes.
30 grand for a base model Cerbera in '92, which is a tick over £50 in todays money.
Someone who wants a new Griffith will buy a new Griffith, there is just absolutely nothing out there brand new like it. Some of the Lotus's I guess, but they don't have the power, nor the mental image that TVR's have. 'ol Trev was an eccentric bloke, maybe the people who buy them have this same affliction? Could be why they don't "make sense" to normal folk.
We don't know enough about the car to know why it's £90k, hand building cars ain't cheap. Bespoke is bespoke. Why is a Norton Dominator £30k? Still sold like hotcakes.
30 grand for a base model Cerbera in '92, which is a tick over £50 in todays money.
Someone who wants a new Griffith will buy a new Griffith, there is just absolutely nothing out there brand new like it. Some of the Lotus's I guess, but they don't have the power, nor the mental image that TVR's have. 'ol Trev was an eccentric bloke, maybe the people who buy them have this same affliction? Could be why they don't "make sense" to normal folk.
Exactly in response to your last sentence! Trust me when I see one on the road I will be excited like a little school boy. Just because its not perfect for me does not mean I dislike it or am dissing it. All I am saying is if they can build unlimited amount, in other words everyone who orders will get one, they'd sell a lot more if people could specify an auto option, you may hate them, it might not be TVR and I agree. But look at Lotus, look at Porsche GT3, look at your Caterhams all purist cars that now offer automatics that work like a sequential and the crazy thing is some of the most die hard manual guys (I was once one of those), actually prefer them. The good modern auto's with manual modes are good and a vast improvement from the junk from just a few years ago that you could make a brew between gear changes. Porsche 997.1 the tiptronic was woeful, manual every time, then 997.2 came with this thing called PDK, at first I was like meh, no way, I then drove one and I was like OMG, I hate to admit this, but oh my I take it over a manual. Though I understand some people will never be swayed from that stick shift.
TVR offering an auto would not lessen the brand, but as long as they can manufacture and meet demand, they'd sell more and lets face it there is nothing more we would all like to see than a successful TVR, more consumer option is great, more choice is great.
How many of those 997's go on a track though? You don't take a TVR on the track. Well, not if you're a keen track day person anyway, that's Porsche, Lotus and Caterham territory, yes where the little milliseconds count.
Also, Porsche... they make the Cayenne and the Emmanuel Macron as well. As if that's not just pandering to the boring masses.
I just don't see an auto TVR selling. It's just so bleh, so... same same. Eh.
Also, Porsche... they make the Cayenne and the Emmanuel Macron as well. As if that's not just pandering to the boring masses.
I just don't see an auto TVR selling. It's just so bleh, so... same same. Eh.
Of course, I more meant the people who are specifically looking for a track car they can drive on the road as well, they don't go buying TVR's - They buy things that are a little more supported in motorsport. I've taken my E21 on a track. It was slow.
