Paedophile hunters

jimjamuk said:
I have no problem with what they do except the final part should be having a copper at the point where he gets rumbled - then hand over all the evidence and haul him off to the cop shop for at least a bit of questioning. At least then it can be taken further or dropped. I could see that working with a couple of dedicated coppers overseeing these "private investigators"
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I think part of the issue is that these private investigators have arisen because of a lack of police officers. I often defend the police on here but even I'm struggling to do that with some things at the moment. Literally the only time I have seen a traffic officer near me in the last year was when they changed a dual lane stretch of road down from a 40 to a 30. He was sat there for 3 days with a speed gun. People take the p and say they're only interested in going after easy crimes that generate income and frankly it's true.
I've been reporting some tossers on motorbikes riding on paths and through a kids playground for 2 years now and the police haven't come out once. It's the same guys and I've even given the address of one of them. Nothing because it's too much work for them. Just like trying to catch a paedo.
 
Someone I used to know about 20 years ago was caught by one of these groups, he thought he was meeting a 15 year old girl (he's in his early 40s) so it ended up all over Facebook via the people I used to know in the area back then. His life was ruined, and unfortunately his family as well and I heard his son had to change schools during his GCSEs because it was such a public outing.

One thing I didn't like about that particular case was that from the video it was mentioned he met the 'girl' on an adult dating website which said she was 19, and only after they had been talking for some time and formed a bond had told him she was actually 15. That felt a bit like entrapment to me. Obviously he should have cut contact right there and then though, like you'd hope any normal person would.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
We have such a social stigma that it's incredibly hard for these people to seek psychotherapy, counselling or any other preventative treatment. It's wrong to think that these people can't be rehabilitated and that they will always have these feeling or urges. I want to make it clear that treating this as a mental health issue doesn't excuse any subsequent crimes. Child sexual abuse ruins lives, which is why I think we need to put more efforts into preventing it happening in the first place rather than mopping up after these thoughts and feelings have escalated into behaviours. It's too late at this point. By having the social stigma and paedophile hunters that we do, people don't seek help and that's how thoughts becomes behaviours, which become offending. That directly affects the safety of children.
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All good points imo,

It's a really uncomfortable problem to have to confront.

There's a sort of old fashioned piece of code that feels like it's built into people's brains that says "PROTECT KIDS" and what feels like the right thing in the short term (catch, beat up/prosecute/incarcerate all nonces) actually might not do any good in the long term - because these people still exist, in increasing numbers taking into account the types of groups and secret communities that exist online.

To me, it seems pretty obvious that we need some way for these people to come forward and be "treated" by professionals to help address their urges, rather than simply trying to bait them into meeting up with "Big Andy" and his mates, who posed as a 13 year old online, because whilst that may seem like a quick win - I don't think it really helps in the long run.

But how on earth you re-engineer society to allow it's number 1 bogeyman to find a way to be 'cured' rather than convicted and thrown into jail is totally beyond me,

NewGamer11 said:
OP is worried that the vigilantes are now closer to home. Understandable.
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Kinda would have been funny, except I was a victim of a nonce between when I was 5 and 7 years old :p but it doesn't bother me anymore,
 
:eek::eek::eek: Shall we mutually delete that so that I look like less of a ****? :p

On a serious note, as others have said, it's all well and good until someone gets killed for looking 'a bit creepy' based on no evidence. I think the paediatric surgeon thing already happened. And remember that guy who was hounded for the Jo Yates murder because he was an oddball who wasn't guilty?
 
NewGamer11 said:
:eek::eek::eek: Shall we mutually delete that so that I look like less of a ****? :p

On a serious note, as others have said, it's all well and good until someone gets killed for looking 'a bit creepy' based on no evidence. I think the paediatric surgeon thing already happened. And remember that guy who was hounded for the Jo Yates murder because he was an oddball who wasn't guilty?
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Nah, as I said it doesn't bother me, what's done is done :)

And yeah I remember Christopher Jefferies, I actually followed the case quite closely because it was a very very good example of what happens, when emotions run high and everyone gets stuck in - things can go badly wrong.

He actually did a C4 documentary which won an award - it's recommended viewing, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3429354/

From what I can remember, he was actually accused of being a paedophile, because the block of flats he owned, apparently housed a man who was a paedophile 20 years earlier before he owned them, or something... Some of the links that the press "created" to make him look bad, were astounding. Needless to say he took them to the cleaners in court and rightly so.
 
Making entertainment of a serious matter like child molestors is a bad thing. It gives incentive to "catch" someone even if they aren't guilty, it does absolutely nothing to prevent the crimes, and it actively pushes the real criminals further underground making it more difficult for the real authorities to make arrests.
 
I am in two minds about these shows ie the likes of Stinson Hunter and The Hunted One etc.

On one note I am glad that these paedos or wannabe paedos are getting 'outed' and caught, and of all the ones I have seen over the years (youtube etc), the evidence seems concrete in establishing that these individuals are a danger to children.

However I always feel slightly uncomfortable in watching a man experience his life collapsing in front of him, especially when there are his loved ones (i.e wife or kids) about. Capturing the guys and confronting them is one thing, but glorifying the detonation of his way of life for 'likes' and 'subs' is another.

This is one I found unsettling to watch :


Gather the evidence, confront them, call the police and get the arrest done. To showcase it on youtube though?

I suppose the argument against this is that embarrassing and socially destroying one of these guys is a necessary consequence in deterring any other wannabe paedos.

However the guy in the above video, whatever happened to him, whatever time he serves in jail, how can he ever return to a normal life again without this dragging behind him? A criminal record is a necessary thing, but to not allow this guy to function normally in society again?

This is another argument altogether and based around our view as the public on if a 'reformed' paedophile who has served his jail sentence deserves another chance at life.

Tough question.
 
icehot said:
There is something so satisfying about seeing them arrested on that show.... I didn't realise they were still making it!
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They're not. It was cancelled in 2008. Many of the men caught on the show were never prosecuted, and some were acquitted.
 
Evangelion said:
They're not. It was cancelled in 2008. Many of the men caught on the show were never prosecuted, and some were acquitted.
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Maybe they could make it so the vigilantes collect the evidence, the cops show up and it all goes by the book from that point.

IF the court find the person not guilty, all video/evidence etc is destroyed.

IF the court finds the person guilty, have at it.

Teachers convicted of rape have their entire careers ruined, even when the accusing students admit it was all a lie.
 
Rifte said:
This is one I found unsettling to watch :

Gather the evidence, confront them, call the police and get the arrest done. To showcase it on youtube though?

I suppose the argument against this is that embarrassing and socially destroying one of these guys is a necessary consequence in deterring any other wannabe paedos.

However the guy in the above video, whatever happened to him, whatever time he serves in jail, how can he ever return to a normal life again without this dragging behind him? A criminal record is a necessary thing, but to not allow this guy to function normally in society again?

This is another argument altogether and based around our view as the public on if a 'reformed' paedophile who has served his jail sentence deserves another chance at life.

Tough question.
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I just watched the whole thing, I agree it's highly unsettling, especially in cold unedited mobile phone footage, compared to the slickly presented "To catch a predator"

It is a very tough question, many people would be happy for him to be physically harmed, killed or thrown into jail for eternity, even though in this case - no offence actually took place against any individual, not that I'm defending him - but it was a simple case of baiting someone with seriously warped urges.

Do I feel sorry for the guy, honestly - not really, anyone agreeing to meet a 15 year old girl for sex deserves a nasty shock, but the fact of the matter is there was no 15 year old, does this guy deserve for his entire life and the people around him, to be irreversibly altered forever because of what amounts to a partial crime, despite the obvious intent? I'm not sure, he should be caught and dealt with somehow, but this unsupervised public showcasing on Youtube seems very dodgy... Whether you love or hate things like "To catch a predator" they at least did work with the cops, and the cops were on site the whole time, they seemed to observe a strict protocol - compared to a bunch of guys walking around with phones.
 
Dark Justice up here in the North East seem to do very well. They don't show the defendants identity until they've been convicted in court, they set up fake chat profiles, agree to meet the defendant and then have police waiting for them to arrest them on the spot. It's just a shame the vast majority of the convictions they aid in end up in suspended sentences.
 
Cold Fusion said:
My opinion on this is they should be working with the police directly and not publicly outing them (innocent until proven guilty) and not posting these videos on [insert social media / video platform here] until these people are convicted.

This shouldn't be a form of 'entertainment'
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+1
 
Loved that show - and totally agree with OP, it's quite mesmerizing watching this seemingly endless stream of sickos being caught out. It's a bit of guilty viewing pleasure, like clips from Jeremy Kyle on YT.

When I was on FB, I followed a fairly local 'hunter'; and what he did, and the way he did it, was actually quite professional. It was the age old honey trap like Chris' show, followed by a bunch of incriminating texts, then a meeting sting on camera/with Police on the way...

Personally, I think it's a good thing - IF done right. A group of intelligent people doing it would be my ideal; ones who aren't going to confront their targets with shouting, shaming and physical violence; regardless of whether their target deserves it or not! Simply approaching their target, advising that the Police are on the way, and giving them the option to stay - the 'citizens arrest' might be good, I don't know enough about the rights to really comment.

But unfortunately there's been quite a bandwagon with this type of justice lately, and I recall seeing a story months ago, where someone conducted a sting and tried the physically restrain their target; unfortunately the 'hunter' was a bit of a keyboard warrior and the target was obviously much stronger than him; so broke free. The 'hunter' then decided to shout to people near-by that the guy was a "pedo" and an near-lynching ensued.

I think it's good that the Police are now considering working with 'hunters', but there ought to be guidelines that are adhered to, but as to what and how - I'll leave that to the professionals :) One good thing is that the net is closing in on were people like this can operate!
 
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