Am I at Fault or the Lorry Driver

[Steampunk]

Lorry's "fault" for indicating right approaching roundabout is debatable as he/she changed mind and indicated correctly left when on the roundabout. We all get lost at times and end up in the wrong lane, or realising we actually need the 2nd exit instead of 3rd... So, it's a little poor to miss the left indicating, but I know in that situation it could be easily done.

But, the lorry also exited from the inside lane on the roundabout without checking mirror - this is even more frustrating/wrong as they knew they were incorrectly indicating right prior to the roundabout, so they should have double-checked for anyone misinterpreting their erroneous signalling. He's technically changed lanes from inside to outside and then left the roundabout, all without looking. See it happening quite often when the exit from a roundabout is dual carriageway and someone on the inside lane just roars to exit, while someone on the outside lane is still wanting the next exit. Whoever is on the inside needs to check mirrors and give way to traffic on the outside, as they're doing a lane-change. I fully appreciate, with the size/visibility of a lorry, it's expected for them to take this line around such a roundabout, when going straight on - this still doesn't mean they shouldn't check when exiting tho...

I think the lorry technically did more "wrong" but experience would make a driver not to be on the outside of a lorry trailer around a roundabout and thus get into that situation. I could almost see myself doing it, especially if it's busy traffic and other cars were entering the roundabout from both lanes - if I saw him indicating right prior to the roundabout, I probably would have been beside him as he entered the roundabout. Depending on the tightness of the roundabout and whether i thought he needed to use both lanes to turn around the roundabout, I would have either gone with him or waited. But, I guess that if I had entered the roundabout at the same time, it would/should have made me a lot more visible to him, before he exited...

Imagine if the lorry had entered the roundabout from the right, intending to go right (ie, entered from the east, intending to exit on the north) and the OP joined from the south. Then they both would have done the exact same manoeuvres, in the exact same lanes, and with the exact same indicators, would you then say the lorry driver did nothing wrong?

You say the lorry driver should have checked, but did you expect him to stop on the roundabout, blocking it when the OP was behind the back of his trailer? Or would you have expected the OP to not go for a non-existent gap on the exit of the roundabout?

In the end, as the driver behind, you have more visibility of what's happening in front of you, you are further back on the road, and have to make allowances for vehicles crossing in front of you for an exit, even from the inside. Especially so for large vehicles that have to take wider lines and fill up more of the available space. If there's only one lane marked, there's little to make a driver think throwing it up the inside is viable. You can see it's a very small exit leading straight into a single lane, ie it's only designed for one vehicle.

Holding off on attempting to blast around the outside of the roundabout for a couple of seconds would have allowed OP to realise what was going on, and allow him to gracefully slot in behind the lorry on the exit.

 

[mrk]

To me it looks like Op's fault really. Always side with caution when behind a lorry approaching a junction or roundabout. They need loads of space to go any direction.

You can see the left indicator flashing as you're nose level with his rear, so should have eased off the throttle instead of continuing to go forward.

 

[DereksDontRun]

Imagine if the lorry had entered the roundabout from the right, intending to go right (ie, entered from the east, intending to exit on the north) and the OP joined from the south. Then they both would have done the exact same manoeuvres, in the exact same lanes, and with the exact same indicators, would you then say the lorry driver did nothing wrong?

That's different, joining a roundabout when the lorry was already on it is madness. Lorry already on the roundabout and thus has right of way.

I was more thinking that if I personally had screwed up and accidentally indicated the wrong direction approaching the roundabout, joined on the inside indicating right, but then realised I needed to cut over across the outside lane to exit straight, I would have been doubly careful about my actions when on the roundabout. If I wasn't 100% sure nobody was on my outside then I (personally) would have done a full loop around the roundabout. Done it before, when I realised I was in the wrong lane or exit wasn't clear, it's just safer to loop around and be clear with indicators. Yes, my caveat is that I'm a car driver and not a lorry, and I could understand that looping around a roundabout in a lorry isn't a trivial thing.

Holding off on attempting to blast around the outside of the roundabout for a couple of seconds would have allowed OP to realise what was going on, and allow him to gracefully slot in behind the lorry on the exit.

yes, I don't deny that trying to overtake while on the roundabout was silly. But, i think both parties were at fault with poor actions.

 

[Litmoose]

Working in transport, the one thing I NEVER do is overtake/undertake an HGV on an island. There's a busy island outside my work, I see it all day long people trying to squeeze up the inside or on his blind side.

 

[Steampunk]

That's different, joining a roundabout when the lorry was already on it is madness. Lorry already on the roundabout and thus has right of way.

I was thinking more like the lorry joins on the east, comes around and is indicating right, OP joins from the south behind the lorry, but sees the exact same thing and tries to blast around the outside of the roundabout intent on overtaking on the inside, only to get caught out on the exit. Everything happens the same from when OP joins the roundabout, but because the lorry is turning right, he's correct and there's no ambiguity about his positioning or indicating. In those circumstances you would say the lorry did nothing wrong and all his actions/indicators are correct.

I was more thinking that if I personally had screwed up and accidentally indicated the wrong direction approaching the roundabout, joined on the inside indicating right, but then realised I needed to cut over across the outside lane to exit straight, I would have been doubly careful about my actions when on the roundabout. If I wasn't 100% sure nobody was on my outside then I (personally) would have done a full loop around the roundabout. Done it before, when I realised I was in the wrong lane or exit wasn't clear, it's just safer to loop around and be clear with indicators. Yes, my caveat is that I'm a car driver and not a lorry, and I could understand that looping around a roundabout in a lorry isn't a trivial thing.

yes, I don't deny that trying to overtake while on the roundabout was silly. But, i think both parties were at fault with poor actions.

The thing with roundabouts, is they rely on all drivers cooperating and not taking the mickey. Just by the fact that one person is in a wide, unwieldy lorry, and the other is in a car behind with full visibility says to me that the person behind has more opportunity (and thus more responsibility) to act more carefully. Plus the car driver is always going to come off worse in any accident between the two.

As shown by the many comments here, pretty much all of us wouldn't have tried to blast it around the lorry, and the lorry driver probably thought the same. In my opinion, the implicit agreement between drivers would have meant the OP should have hung back, and the lorry driver would have expected him to do so too. The lorry might have gone around the roundabout again if the driver thought that someone was going to try and stuff it up the inside into a bend from so far back, but more likely his expectation is that no one would try something so silly, and it all goes wrong very quickly indeed.

 

[stopper]

There is no question about it really.
The lorry indicates left, at or immediately after the first exit, to show he is going left at the second exit. The only reason you can't see that too well in the video is because OP tried to undertake him before he finished his signaling.
Lorry driver isn't at fault at all, he did a textbook maneuver to get off the roundabout onto a single lane road. If you just hung back and waited to be sure he was going where you thought he was going, this wouldn't have happened.
Long vehicles will almost always take up 2 lanes at junctions, you have to be more aware of them or risk being crushed.

 

[ubersonic]

Personally I would say OP is at fault (or at least more at fault). I try to avoid overtaking HGVs on roundabouts from either side simply because you have to do it via blind spots, but you have to bear in mind that many older drivers will still indicate right when going straight because that's how they were taught, I would also have expected that HGV to be in the left lane if it was actually going right. I would also have backed off when it started indicating left because that's never going to end well.

 

[Housey]

A good driver will always seek to avoid accidents. They will not act in a belligerent manner because they believe they are in the right, they will just observe that another motorists hasn't got a clue or is driving aggressively and will drive accordingly and by accordingly I mean in a defensive manner to protect their personal property and life. The issue is many will see this as an affront, will get angry that the bad driving of the other person is their problem, not their fault and that they should be taught a lesson and usually this is when metalwork gets damaged, or worse. Yea the lorry was unsure what he/she was doing, the positioning of the lorry and approach made that apparent to me watching the video so I would drive accordingly, certainly not seek to run up the inside of a large vehicle on a small island when I have observed their driving. OP this is what happened, the rest as I said before is just noise for the debate. If you had sat back, let the lorry sort itself out you would have no damage and we probably would not have had 2 pages debating something that was just one of those things. Learn, move on.

 

[Scania]

Bit of both I’d say, the car driver should have hung back and anticipated what the HGV might have done and I’d say the HGV Driver too as to my mind wasn’t using his mirrors as he didn’t seem to be aware of the OP’s vehicle or, were he he simply didn’t care.