Gove considering plastic bottle deposit scheme

[semi-pro waster]

They had that when I lived in Finland. It led to the students collecting loads to fund parties etc . There were machines in shops where you could feed in the cans/bottles, then at the end it'd give you a receipt which acted as a coupon you could use at the end of your shop. Fairly fuss free.

I think that might be the experience of pretty much every student in Finland and it works well as a system. San Pellegrino either does or used to have the return value for Finland on their bottles of water sold in the UK.

It could work well and it'll be interesting to see how it is implemented because the approach is likely to determine the success or failure here.

 

[Amp34]

It's silly just to look at numbers like that, the countries you talk about have much higher recycling rates of everything regardless of deposit schemes it is a cultural thing.

My issue with this is Gove proposing another step back to his child hood without thinking it through in the online shopping age. What's needed here is a whole package of measures not a headline grabber. Standardised doorstep recycling across the country would be a start not the lottery we currently have and forcing the manufacturers and retailers to take some responsibility for the over packaged goods they produce. A deposit scheme is not a one stop fix all, it punishes anyone who already recycles and shops online and will be a nice profit boost for veola et al who will be collecting less recycling from the doorstep and still charging councils the same!

Why do they have such high recycling rates and more of a culture of recycling? Perhaps because of things like the deposit schemes?

As I pointed out earlier Alberta has a recycling rate of around 85-90% for bottles and other containers on the recycling scheme. That went up around 10% when the scheme increased deposit prices from 10c to 25c on some containers. There’s very little argument that deposit schemes work. I’d agree however that there may be an argument on the economic effectiveness.

It’s not like Canada has a standardised recycling scheme, heck we didn’t even have a recycling bin when I moved here about two years ago. That came a few months after we got here. Other parts of the country have had bins for a decade or more. Standardised national recycling schemes are likely the exception rather than the norm as most countries devolve their schemes to local authorities.

And online shopping really isn’t some panacea, there are already plenty of good examples of how it could work. In the Scottish programme shopkeepers are going to be paid to take in the bottles, so I’m pretty sure Tesco will have a system in place pretty quick so they can bring back a little bit of profit in their otherwise empty vans.

The point of a deposit scheme over a tax is just that, it doesn’t punish those that already recycle, as very little changed for them. It does however punish those that don’t recycle, and is a hell of a lot more effective than the ridiculous idea that people are fined for not putting recycling in a recycling bin!

 

[Amp34]

I think the word to note is 'proposing' the evidence is plentiful that this is a major issue but we are only at the proposal stage. Like the proposed ivory ban Goves proposal it is little more than a cynical attempt to attract the young vote which were were not happy when the 2017 manifesto quietly dropped the ivory ban recommendation from the Tory manifesto.

Not sure what the argument is here? Things take time, and the proposal for this is pretty far ahead.

The Government, which will introduce the necessary legislation later this year

The plastic bag scheme was only a “proposal” at one time.

A multifaceted attack on plastic is needed. Plastic bag tax, deposit scheme, micro bead ban and legislation to force manufacturers to be more careful with packaging will all help. Just because one facet has not been implemented yet doesn’t mean we can’t think about other ways to reduce plastic waste.

Now whether it happens is another debate, perhaps it is Gove just trying to get the young vote. If that’s the case then he won’t keep it for long if nothing goes through.

And that ivory ban you mention was shelved, that’s back on the table but much stronger this time. It’s a complete ban, rather than a ban only on modern ivory which has made environmental organizations much happier.

 

[Lopéz]

I've been working for a few months in the Nordics where this is just accepted as normal. Whilst there are incentives to do it, they aren't really needed because the people see it as their social/environmental responsibility to do stuff like this.

Way ahead of us here in the UK on all sorts of things, not just this.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Seeing as I've been putting recycling into my council provided bins for the last 15 years I'd be a bit peeved off if others are getting money for it.

If I can get money for filling my recycling bin up every month then I'm all ears!

Fear not, its going to landfills in the UK or to China anyway.

 

[muon]

I think it is a terrible idea. If the 57% number is correct then that isn't half bad recycling rate already. We just need to get that up through better collection and promote recycling attitudes.

Not build another industry around charging deposits and then returning it. The cheapest way of recycling is likely the way we do it now, people put them in the correct bins.

The plastic bag scheme is different in that it is to encourage reuse and so reduce the number of bags being produced.

 

[Tefal]

Currently the UK recycles around 57% of it’s plastic bottles. Other countries that use the deposit schemes are in the high 80s and 90%s so I ask you: what’s your solution to get recycling up to 90% if it doesn’t include a deposit scheme?



For the scheme here it’s added to the bill as a separate charge. Eg

Coca Cola 12 pack - $10
    Deposit - 12x$0.10 - $1.20

Some schemes are designed to push companies away from certain packaging on purpose. However not in the way you’re describing. The pence per litre is likely to be no different, both because the price on the shelf is unlikely to include the deposit amount in the main price AND because you get that money back. It’s a deposit, not a tax.

If you’re really that close to being broke that you can’t afford to pay a little extra deposit (that you get back) the you probably won’t be buying a dozen cans over a 2 litre bottle now anyway.

but you don't get that money back if you use your blue bin

 

[Tefal]

Seeing as I've been putting recycling into my council provided bins for the last 15 years I'd be a bit peeved off if others are getting money for it.

If I can get money for filling my recycling bin up every month then I'm all ears!

and how long do you think its gonna take for the local addicts and teenagers to realise that at 10p per bottle few streets full of recycling bins are worth 100 quid easy?

and we complain about foxes making a mess.....

 

[SpeedFreak]

Spent 20 minutes collecting plastic bottles from the edge of the cricket pitch behind my house this evening. Anything to reduce wanton disregard is a good thing.

 

[Tefal]

so they have the capacity to now only bring you bottles and everything else, but down have room to take it back. ROFL

so they have the capacity to now only bring you bottles and everything else, but down have room to take it back. ROFL

yeah cause I might have just ordered 1 tray worth of stuff but have a whole binsack full of bottles to hand back...

 

[Tefal]

Wrong on several levels but you only mention one, of course plastic breaks down but a plastic bottle can take between 450 and a 1000 years to do. The amount of microbeeds being dumped into the oceans far outstrips plastic bottles which is why use of microbeads should be stopped entirely now as they are are entering the food chain in alarming quantities.

especially as microbeads for exfoliants can easily be replaced with coarse ground salt

 

[Tefal]

So instead of just dumping them in the recycling bin outside the house I'd have to load them into the car and drive them to a supermarket.
With my car that's half a gallon of fuel. Well that seems sensible.

and you'll have to pay an extra 10p a bottle for the privilege

 

[Caged]

Yes I'm sure that absolutely nothing would change to make it easy to return bottles if this came into existence. Like there wouldn't be machines locally, and grocery delivery wouldn't include a feature where empties could be returned.

 

[Efour]

and you'll have to pay an extra 10p a bottle for the privilege

Nah I hope its 20p, tbh.

 

[Tefal]

Nah I hope its 20p, tbh.

why!?

why in God's name should I pay 20p extra per bottle to use my goddamn recycling bin?

if that happens I will jist start lobbing them in the black bin since I'm paying it anyway theres no point taking the time to sort my recycling.

 

[SpeedFreak]

why!?

why in God's name should I pay 20p extra per bottle to use my goddamn recycling bin?

if that happens I will jist start lobbing them in the black bin since I'm paying it anyway theres no point taking the time to sort my recycling.

This makes no sense.

 

[Tefal]

This makes no sense.

if I dont rerun them to a shop, I dont get my deposit back.

so if I use my blue recycling stuff for bottles in throwing my deposit away.

at which point why even bother using the bin, I'll get my 20p back by saving the time and just lobbing everything in th ekitchen bin and then into the black bin.

 

[SpeedFreak]

So why not return them to the shop?

 

[Efour]

So why not return them to the shop?

cos for a small percent of people its too much effort and they seem to produce so much refuse they are literally filling black sacks every week with beer cans and 2L coke bottles.

But whatever, they will deal with it with tears and pay more whilst the other 99% will just do it like normal and in 5 years everyone won't even batter an eyelid. Same with buying a plastic bag.

 

[Lopéz]

this isnt a reward for people tsking back bottles its a fine for people who use the council recycling.

and I told you I get stuff like that delivered like a lot of people wothou cars.

or a pick things up after work, I dont want to take a bag of garbage to work with me each day.

because people don't want thier fresh food put in a garbage truck. dirty clean sections means youve just halves your trucks capacity too.

or you know a load sensor on the lifting arm.

instead you propose to invonenence everyone

also you're all living in a rather cutesy middle class world where kids are collecting bottles for sweets

addicts are going to raid everyones recycling bins, why wander about town when there's a street full of hundreds because they dont want to spend the weekend shutting themselves as they go through withdrawl

We're all living in a rather cutesy middle class world?

You're living in the dark ages. Wake up and accept the responsibility that we all have to make an effort to recycle and that might include a deposit scheme and (shock, horror) some kind of effort on your part as a human.

All I get from your posts is "Mi mi mi mi mi mi"