Does anyone still think the housing market isn't broken?

OpenToSuggestions said:
I still don't think the housing market is as badly broken as people make out.
I am 29, so I fall into the younger bracket.

I have a very comfortable lifestyle in Stoke On Trent. I think people need to be willing to relocate or prioritise their personal spending.
I bought my house at age 25. My clothes are from Primark, my food Aldi and (at the time) I had an 8 year old Ford Focus. I also had no annual holidays and no TV packages. My house was full of hand-me-down furniture too. I did not decorate for 3 years, even though it needed it.
Fast forward to 2017 and the house is worth 36% more so I have already won the 'buy or rent' argument, even with my hour-long commute.


Don't forget that in the 1990s the interest was insane too. Whilst I don't remember this, my parents certainly do.

Do houses cost more than they used to in relation to your earnings and/or cost of living? Yes they do, but that is just how it is. Either you suck it up and cut your living costs elsewhere, or...well, don't.
Whilst I am fond of nostalgia (especially cars and gaming) there is really no use comparing it to what your grandparents bought their house for.
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It is a very different story in the South and the reality is not everyone has the flexibility even if they have the willingness to relocate especially not significantly.

Regardless of whether the interest rate was insane or not the reality is that in the 1980s, etc. it was possible with say an average salary and taking the kind of measures you describe to afford an average house (commensurate with the kind of lifestyle that income otherwise allows for) or maybe pushing it a bit more, taking on a second job, etc. something a bit nicer these days increasingly people are having to go that extra to get close to a house that is commensurate with the kind of living standard they can otherwise afford never mind something a bit nicer than their otherwise living standard.
 
Scam said:
Wow, gosh. A whole year? How did you cope? Firstly your obviously ridiculous assumptions aside (most people I know don't buy a phone every year, don't spend every night in the pub, don't own a flash car; if any) that part of your post proves you have absolutely no idea what is going on in the real world. Have you even looked at the prices of places further south than Birmingham? Even saving £1k per month for a year only nets you £12k. You give £12k to someone in the south for a deposit and they'll laugh you out of town. You ain't get diddly squat with that. It's just impossible. The average deposit is over £33k, so pull the other one with your holier-than-thou attitude; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-housing-market-report-mortgage-a7816321.html :rolleyes:
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"Holier-than-thou attitude" - You should re-read your post.

£12k deposit can get you a mortgage and house down south, just be prepared to have an hour commute in to London which isnt exactly terrible. I know people who live IN London and have an hour commute to work in the city.
 
Russinating said:
Why would you expect to be able to buy a similar house to your dad, what, 50/60 years later? They're already owned by your dad and everyone else's dad. I'm guessing we're talking a 2/3 bed house as well, not a flat.

I've no idea where you live but you only need a £10,000 deposit with the HTB scheme to buy a £200,000 property. Probably even enough to get a flat in some parts of London. If that took you 9 years then that's saving less than £100 a month whilst staying at home which is very low. You'd normally expect to pay anywhere from £250-500 renting, which could be saved. If you (plural, not you personally) were able to save £500 a month living at home then it'd only take 10 months to save the same deposit. And with the new LISA's or whatever they're called, the bonus would likely cover stamp duty and legal fees too.
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The point I'm making is how inflated it has become. Yes I probably could have bought a grotty flat at 25 with lending schemes etc. but I didn't. I probably could have left my friends and family behind and moved up north but I didn't do that either.

The point is, what was available to me, being significantly more qualified and being paid significantly more was pitiful in comparison so it grates to see baby boomers riding the wave of their inflated property wealth mouthing off about how it's all because millenials just want the moon on a stick and they want it yesterday. That's utter crap, most would be hugely grateful just to be afforded a similar opportunity to buy somewhere to live on something approaching a similar footing to their parents.

Ultimately I'm under no illusion that I'm in a relatively privileged position as things go these days but I'd hate to be trying to life live on average money these days.
 
Kenai said:
most would be hugely grateful just to be afforded a similar opportunity to buy somewhere to live on something approaching a similar footing to their parents.
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Yup.

My dad bought a reasonable house while bringing up a family of 5 - on (adjusted) similar kind of money I can barely even dream of affording a similar property never mind while bringing up a family as well.

EDIT: If this comes over as sour grapes it really isn't as I've no intention of buying a similar property even if I could afford it but I can see the position some are in.
 
Rroff said:
It is a very different story in the South and the reality is not everyone has the flexibility even if they have the willingness to relocate especially not significantly.

Regardless of whether the interest rate was insane or not the reality is that in the 1980s, etc. it was possible with say an average salary and taking the kind of measures you describe to afford an average house (commensurate with the kind of lifestyle that income otherwise allows for) or maybe pushing it a bit more, taking on a second job, etc. something a bit nicer these days increasingly people are having to go that extra to get close to a house that is commensurate with the kind of living standard they can otherwise afford never mind something a bit nicer than their otherwise living standard.
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You are right in saying that the south is totally insane. My brother just bought a tiny (albeit very nice) 2 bed terrace in Southampton for £200k.
Most jobs are available in the midlands too :). There is loads of manufacturing work which suits me.

I don't understand that when terraces in Stoke start at 40k, why would bust your nuts to buy a house in an equally crappy area for £150k+. You can buy a house here even if you're on minimum wage which must count for something! :). (Make no mistake I am the first to say Stoke is the UK's bum crack, but we all start somewhere!).
 
I'm on £14.5k a year, and no I can't get a job with more pay unless I'm stupidly lucky.
I can have a mortgage of around 500 a month on a £100k house, after other bills, food etc I have maybe £50 left? probably close to £0.

So no I can't afford a house either.
 
OpenToSuggestions said:
My brother just bought a tiny (albeit very nice) 2 bed terrace in Southampton for £200k.
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Looking at 2 bed places around here just saw a very nice one for £125K - I'd snap that up in a year or two if it was on the market :( not even in a bad area - most of the <150K ones are in areas you really wouldn't want to live in - mostly here it is about 200K for something reasonable in a reasonable area.
 
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    MatsyLR said:
    I'm on £14.5k a year, and no I can't get a job with more pay unless I'm stupidly lucky.
    I can have a mortgage of around 500 a month on a £100k house, after other bills, food etc I have maybe £50 left? probably close to £0.

    So no I can't afford a house either.
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    that's today and in a few years you wages rise and you have more money. The start is always a struggle, I can remember thinking I had made a mistake buying as I was always skint, my mates were going on holiday, pub etc. I took a lodger in to help me cover the bills.
 
Vonhelmet said:
What an absurd question. You may as well ask why you should expect to buy a house at all.
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Well, quite; many countries/cultures don't consider buying a house a necessity. My point is to say "my dad bought this" is totally unrealistic. Land is the commodity required to build houses and it's finite. Hell you could probably still buy undeveloped land in London when his dad bought his house.
 
Help to
Russinating said:
Why would you expect to be able to buy a similar house to your dad, what, 50/60 years later? They're already owned by your dad and everyone else's dad. I'm guessing we're talking a 2/3 bed house as well, not a flat.

I've no idea where you live but you only need a £10,000 deposit with the HTB scheme to buy a £200,000 property. Probably even enough to get a flat in some parts of London. If that took you 9 years then that's saving less than £100 a month whilst staying at home which is very low. You'd normally expect to pay anywhere from £250-500 renting, which could be saved. If you (plural, not you personally) were able to save £500 a month living at home then it'd only take 10 months to save the same deposit. And with the new LISA's or whatever they're called, the bonus would likely cover stamp duty and legal fees too.
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Help to buy scheme is another prop for a dysfunctional broken housing market. If you really think the current housing market isn't broken then you're mad. It is completely broken.
 
The housing market is only somewhat broken - we need more. The real problem is the jobs market which has for too long focused on London, ramping prices up. There is a ton of housing in the north but more jobs needed up here which is something the government can easily help with. Manchester really benefiting from this with large firms moving here (PwC, KPMG for example just opened here), BBC move to Salford has created a boom in the creative industry.
 
LabR@t said:
  • ,, s
    that's today and in a few years you wages rise and you have more money. The start is always a struggle, I can remember thinking I had made a mistake buying as I was always skint, my mates were going on holiday, pub etc. I took a lodger in to help me cover the bills.
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In a few years time interest rates will be much higher so your reasoning is invalid.
 
MatsyLR said:
I'm on £14.5k a year, and no I can't get a job with more pay unless I'm stupidly lucky.
I can have a mortgage of around 500 a month on a £100k house, after other bills, food etc I have maybe £50 left? probably close to £0.

So no I can't afford a house either.
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If you don't mind sharing, how come you cant get a job which pays more? skills, lack of jobs in area, personal situation ie looking after a sick member of family?
 
MatsyLR said:
I'm on £14.5k a year, and no I can't get a job with more pay unless I'm stupidly lucky.
I can have a mortgage of around 500 a month on a £100k house, after other bills, food etc I have maybe £50 left? probably close to £0.

So no I can't afford a house either.
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You would struggle to find a job on less, not more. That must be minimum wage?
 
Russinating said:
Well, quite; many countries/cultures don't consider buying a house a necessity. My point is to say "my dad bought this" is totally unrealistic. Land is the commodity required to build houses and it's finite. Hell you could probably still buy undeveloped land in London when his dad bought his house.
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Land is technically finite, but to suggest we've reached the limits of what we can build is ridiculous. I looked up the figures for how much of the uk is built up a while ago, it's like 10%. Land is not finite in any meaningful sense at this point.
 
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