Do we really? Well if you say so, then yes use that as then as well, before you know it we might have a world class NHS, people might even begin to abuse it from over countries travelling her to be treated, without paying into it.
Give up your spare room for a grand?
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Are they? If they're completely confused and need full time carers then that would seem to be a different situation.
AFAIK this is for people who would otherwise be discharged home as normal if they didn't live alone - the only difference here is that instead of their partner or family member being present there is a stranger who is being paid to take them in. In neither case are the people medically qualified - your criticisms/what ifs apply equally to someone being discharged to their own home with a partner and that already happens now!
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And what do you think that partner or family does? The reason they need someone there is they can't manage on their own. They no longer need the clinical care of a hospital, sure, but that doesnt mean they don't need help. Besides it might be normal for Dorris to be a little confused and need a carer to give her her medication in the morning while they give her breakfast and help her wash herself. Are you going to be expected to do that? Even if you were, and I doubt it, would that be all? After all if Dorris didn't need anything else she could be discharged home.
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But we're not talking about carers though.
Look patients get discharged to their homes already, if they live with say a partner or family.
With this new proposal patients who otherwise live alone but might need some help with meals and would otherwise be discharged if they didn't live alone (say they're recovering from an operation on their leg, hip, whatever) can be discharged to a strangers house.
In either case there is either a stranger or a family member/spouse looking after them not - why do qualifications need come into this?
As far as I can tell this new system is just being trialled in the case where someone would otherwise be discharged to their own home if they didn't live alone ergo the various comments about qualifications or other issues already apply to people who are already discharged now.
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As i said earlier several times, we are struggling to staff the NHS because less people want to work for it. The government has introduced belt tightening policies over the years to make it look as if we are working toward saving money in times of need but reality is that we are just choking the NHS. It isn't about offering more for wages, it is about unfavourable work terms and conditions. Come off the idea that we need to give less to invest more in the NHS, that is not how a government budget works. The government decides what it needs for public services and then allocates an amount, it is not a ratio compared to other budgets. This aid may have net us all sorts of advantages from a political point of view, why would you think it would be okay to remove it without consequence?
Again focusing on having a pop at foreigners. It is mismanagement that allows this abuse. We are fully entitled to claim back medical expenses from EU governments like other countries do, we are just terrible at it and fail to claim back much at all. We also have a law for out of the EU visitors where short stay visitors must pay 150% of the hospital fees and longer than 6 month visitors pay a yearly visa 'health surcharge', residents that originated from outside the country pay tax.
Is it really abuse of the system if we fail to claim back money when other countries manages it? No, it is our failing. This health visitor BS is ridiculous, prejudging foreigners to abuse the healthcare system as if they are stealing right from your pocket when it is nothing like that. If you meet a migrant at the hospital, they are more likely treating you rather than in front of you in the queue and even that is to do with our failings to staff the NHS internally before we start hearing about jobs being stolen...
I've tried to raise points about the state of the NHS but its always about foreigners with you. A one sided conversation i have lost interest in.
So health tourism doesn't exist?
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And those family members often provide care. A level of care is obviously gonig to be required, otherwise Dorris could go home. I didn't say anything about qualification, you're right you don't need a qualification to do it. Im simply pointing out that its not likely to be just heating 3 meals a day. Theme would likely be some care involved, help with medication, washing, going to the toilet, changing incont pads etc. Are those offering this airbnb going to be expected to provide this? Where do their responsibilities end?
it was the other poster who mentioned qualifications and who I replied to when you then quoted me
I'm not sure that the carer aspects need apply here - when people have got to that stage they tend to have careers come in three times a day even if living with family IME and those carers are trained.
I doubt that untrained people are going to be expected to wipe people's bums and provide that sort of care.
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Not the way you think it does.
We can claim back all EU migrant expenses. For outside the EEC short term expenses are charged at a 150% rate and long term visitors are charged an additional charge to contribute. People who work here from overseas also pay tax without having them go through an expensive schooling system here before doing so.
Our failure to claim money from what you describe as health tourists, is just down to poor management of the NHS.
Since you have asked me loads of points and been shot down every time, you can at least try and read some of my posts, as they have answered all these questions prior to you even asking...
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Yes, carers are trained and do a lot of the personal care for their clients, but I doubt Dorris is going to wait to go to the toilet until the carer arrives. Besides, surely if the family was genuinely expected to do nothing in terms of caring for Dorris, then why, with the same care package can't Dorris go home alone. After all The family isn't caring for her. To my mind, the answer is because she will likely need some care between care visits. The family might not be helping her wash in the morning but they probably are helping to the loo when she needs. What happens if she has an accident before the carer arrives, are you meant to leave her sitting in her own urine?
well helping to the loo is perhaps a bit different to helping with the loo as per a carer
I didn't claim a family is expected to do nothing - fetching meals for example is one of the things cited for this air bnb idea and simply having someone there who can call for help if something does go wrong
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If they took a hard-line approach to cutting down on health tourism then perhaps this stupid idea wouldn't be needed.
Any figures surrounding this?
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How is it different? It's still an intimate situation, and it doesn't become less so because you don't add the title carer? Have you ever helped some to the toilet? You don't just walk them to the door, they usually need help removing clothing, and with wiping and redressing afterwards.
Also aren't we saying there's an increased risk of 'something going wrong' if someone to call on is required? So when that something happens, what is the host meant to do? I know of no injury fallers, who this week have spent hours on the floor waiting for an ambulance to pick them up. Is the host meant to pick them up, or leave them on the floor for hours until someone can come lift them?
I guess the point I'm making is that it places a much greater level of responsibility on the host then they might be expecting, and one which in my mind cannot be properly supported within the current framework.
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I don't know and can't be arsed to dig around at the moment. What I do know though is that a Romanian family down the road from me always seem to be visited by pregnant relatives who mysteriously goes back home a few weeks after giving birth. According to the woman who lives next door to them they're up to 19 babies now in about three years.
OK that is different then, I suspect that this isn't the sort of scenario being proposed and that sort of thing does tend to require carers
well likewise what happens now to people discharged to stay with a partner or family member - surely the same question applies there... of course you'd expect to help someone if they took a fall
it depends, I'm not so sure about the carer aspect - if someone needs regular care like that then are they really suitable for this rather than a care home (even if temporary)?
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I think there's a difference between me standing behind my dad to steady him and make sure he doesnt fall when peeing and doing the same thing for a stranger. It might be awkward with my dad, but its something I'd feel unwilling to do for a stranger. And what about if the recuperating person in my house? It's one thing accepting help to the toilet from family if you must, but would you want a stranger standing behind you when you're peeing?
Similarly, if I pick Dorris off the floor because she doesn't seem injured but it later transpires she has a broken hip, am I going to be sued? How would it feel to leave her on the floor in case she's injured, and watch her beg to be picked up for an hour before an ambulance arrives? Again, the situation is different when you're dealing with family. I can probably trust my mum to accept that I'm trying to do my best, whether I leave her on floor or pick her up. I think the issue of payment changes the dynamic of the relationship, and places a burden of responsibility on the host which perhaps is different to the responsibility we may feel towards family.
Again it comes down to the fact that if Dorris wasn't likely to need help she could just be discharge home alone. These are the things, in my experience, that people recovering from illness or injury need help with - falls and toileting in particular. Let's be clear, the help they might need will often amount to care. To pretend otherwise does a huge disservice to potential hosts who could well find themselves in situations they're completely unprepared for.
It's an awful idea, not just for the host but for the patient. The problem is that getting access to suitable levels of personal care on discharge is neigh on impossible, so beds get blocked. The trust in questions seems to have been hoping to reduce bed blocking by making defacto (and untrained) carers out of these hosts. Thankfully they seem to have thought better of it.
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but you seem to be basing all of this on the assumption that the patients are someone called Dorris who isn't quite with it mentally and needs professional carers etc.. when I'm not sure that is necessarily the case, this could seemingly be someone who has had an operation on their leg and just isn't very mobile but aside from that is perfectly sane still and capable of using the toilet by themselves
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So what help might a person need which would require someone to be there, but which doesn't constitute care?