BT Openreach effigy set alight by villagers

[weringo]

I am confused as to why people living in villages like this don't just get satellite internet. A quick Google suggests is £25/m for 22 Mbit with a £400 set up cost. If this is available, why on earth should BT have to spend tens of thousands of pounds connecting up these villages?

Am I missing something?

 

[teaboy5]

Yes the 600-800ms delay.

 

[weringo]

Which isn't going to significantly hamper a browsing experience or even streaming. So BT are essentially paying for everyone to have an optimal online gaming set up?

 

[FoxEye]

Which isn't going to significantly hamper a browsing experience or even streaming. So BT are essentially paying for everyone to have an optimal online gaming set up?

This is 2017, not 1999. Other countries have managed to roll out FTTP to the majority of their population, or are in the process of doing so. We're already lagging behind most of Europe, and Asia.

Why are we so happy to defend BT's profit-making even if it sets us even further back?

Are we British so genuinely hyper-capitalist that we're prepared to put corporate profits above social and economic progress for all? Yes?

 

[FoxEye]

Oh lol you’ve not even attempted an upgrade. Yeah sorry, you’re ranting about how poorly a hypothetical problem might be handled now.

Why do you think you’d be charged if the service doesn’t work? You can complain about customer service all you want but at some point you do have to be prepared to stand up for your rights as a consumer.

If I upgrade and the line keeps dropping out - as it does now, but worse because VDSL is more sensitive - and they send another BT engineer round, and he says "no fault" - then I'm left with a faulty line, a long contract, and nobody will accept that the fault even exists.

Are you going to pay for my contract if that happens? Of course not. The ADSL can barely keep synced, VDSL on this line will be a joke, and reading reports online of people's experience when VDSL upgrades don't work, coupled with my own experience of OR, leaves me *certain* that I will not have a good time.

You'll have to forgive me for knowing a bit more about the quality of my line than you do. Given that you can give me no guarantees that the service will work, and given that it doesn't I will have no recourse to get it fixed - like I have no recourse to get it fixed at the moment - then I don't see the value in making things worse for myself.

Long story short - OR won't fix the line, you don't put VDSL on a line that can barely handle ADSL.

 

[weringo]

This is 2017, not 1999. Other countries have managed to roll out FTTP to the majority of their population, or are in the process of doing so. We're already lagging behind most of Europe, and Asia.

Why are we so happy to defend BT's profit-making even if it sets us even further back?

Are we British so genuinely hyper-capitalist that we're prepared to put corporate profits above social and economic progress for all? Yes?

Regardless of what year it is, a 10ms ping is not a basic human right. People have always had to make compromises living out in the sticks and as I have pointed out a reasonable browsing experience is already available to everyone at an affordable price.

 

[OllyM]

If I upgrade and the line keeps dropping out - as it does now, but worse because VDSL is more sensitive - and they send another BT engineer round, and he says "no fault" - then I'm left with a faulty line, a long contract, and nobody will accept that the fault even exists.

Are you going to pay for my contract if that happens? Of course not. The ADSL can barely keep synced, VDSL on this line will be a joke, and reading reports online of people's experience when VDSL upgrades don't work, coupled with my own experience of OR, leaves me *certain* that I will not have a good time.

You'll have to forgive me for knowing a bit more about the quality of my line than you do. Given that you can give me no guarantees that the service will work, and given that it doesn't I will have no recourse to get it fixed - like I have no recourse to get it fixed at the moment - then I don't see the value in making things worse for myself.

Long story short - OR won't fix the line, you don't put VDSL on a line that can barely handle ADSL.

The price differential between ADSL and VDSL is minimal and removing a large chunk of the copper loop may well fix your issue. I believe some ISP's will let you leave if your sync is below the minimum they guarantee now.

If you won't even try it how can you know for sure? Ranting about how unfair it is that everywhere doesn't have FTTP isn't going to fix your problem.

 

[MagicBoy]

I ******* detest BT and their haphazard approach to internet infrastructure. I live in a large City and am still stuck on a crappy ADSL connection because BTw keep on pushing the date back for fibre installation at the cabinet.

It was the same here until 12 months ago. I live within a couple of hundred meters of the main exchange for the area, but there's currently more business customers on these cabinets so OpenReach didn't care. The big traditional housing areas a quarter mile away all got upgraded five plus years ago as they're competing against Virgin cable.

Took the Greater Manchester broadband notspot bribery quango to get the upgrade pushed through on behalf of the local businesses.

 

[Caged]

If I upgrade and the line keeps dropping out - as it does now, but worse because VDSL is more sensitive - and they send another BT engineer round, and he says "no fault" - then I'm left with a faulty line, a long contract, and nobody will accept that the fault even exists.

Are you going to pay for my contract if that happens? Of course not. The ADSL can barely keep synced, VDSL on this line will be a joke, and reading reports online of people's experience when VDSL upgrades don't work, coupled with my own experience of OR, leaves me *certain* that I will not have a good time.

You'll have to forgive me for knowing a bit more about the quality of my line than you do. Given that you can give me no guarantees that the service will work, and given that it doesn't I will have no recourse to get it fixed - like I have no recourse to get it fixed at the moment - then I don't see the value in making things worse for myself.

Long story short - OR won't fix the line, you don't put VDSL on a line that can barely handle ADSL.

I still don't understand why you think you'd be held to contract on a service that doesn't work. You don't *know* that the problem is between your cabinet and yourself, you're just adamant that it is, and that you therefore need FTTP.

If you upgrade and it doesn't work, then you downgrade. Simple.

 

[Pestilence]

I'm not sure why people in London believe they are entitled to everything first. I realise they are used to having the lions share of the countries resources but still.......

It's not so much "first", it's more that as a suburb of the biggest major city in the UK, one would assume internet availability would be up to modernity.

I live in a rural village out in the Nottingham boonies and have 40Mb fibre. How that's not possible in a major city is just weird. Then again, often I end up standing in city centers without even a mobile data signal, so... *shrug*

 

[Caged]

Often it's a space thing, Kensington & Chelsea didn't want the cabinets on their street, so BT obliged them and didn't put any in.

 

[FoxEye]

I still don't understand why you think you'd be held to contract on a service that doesn't work. You don't *know* that the problem is between your cabinet and yourself, you're just adamant that it is, and that you therefore need FTTP.

If you upgrade and it doesn't work, then you downgrade. Simple.

If it drops every hour it's still not considered a fault if OR say there is no fault on the line.

If OR say there is no fault on the line I will be held to contract even if it drops every hour. Already confirmed this with ISP. OR decide if there is a fault or not, not the customer. If OR say there is no fault you cannot end your contract.

Not sure how universal this is across ISPs but that's what I'm told.

 

[Psymonkee]

It was the same here until 12 months ago. I live within a couple of hundred meters of the main exchange for the area, but there's currently more business customers on these cabinets so OpenReach didn't care. The big traditional housing areas a quarter mile away all got upgraded five plus years ago as they're competing against Virgin cable.

Took the Greater Manchester broadband notspot bribery quango to get the upgrade pushed through on behalf of the local businesses.

Is your phoneline connected directly to the exchange? From what I understand those can't get FTTC due to the way things are setup. My sister has this problem and it's been a constant problem for years!

 

[Caged]

If it drops every hour it's still not considered a fault if OR say there is no fault on the line.

If OR say there is no fault on the line I will be held to contract even if it drops every hour. Already confirmed this with ISP. OR decide if there is a fault or not, not the customer. If OR say there is no fault you cannot end your contract.

Not sure how universal this is across ISPs but that's what I'm told.

Only the most incompetent provider would fail to push back to Openreach on hourly loss of sync for a resolution.

Have a look at the ISPs listed in the second item on this page and see if that sounds like something worth trying - https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/codes-of-practice. For example, here is Vodafone's policy document http://www.vodafone.co.uk/cs/groups/public/documents/document/broadband-speeds-vcop-consumer.pdf

If your access line speed is lower than the minimum guaranteed speed we said you’d get when you signed up for Vodafone Broadband, please call us free on 08080 034 515 and the team will find out why. Calls are free from all UK landlines and mobiles, and lines are open from 8am to 11pm, seven days a week. If you can’t remember your minimum guaranteed speed, you’ll find it in your service confirmation letter. If we’re not able to resolve your speed issue within 28 days, you have the right to cancel your contract without penalty. Should such an unfortunate situation occur, simply call the team and they’ll talk you through your options.

 

[teaboy5]

There is other means of getting internet into the sticks. If there was some good 4G Package's that would sort a few folk out. And some ISP's could go as far as building some masts for PTP wireless internet which will easily give people 25Mbps +.

 

[Caged]

I'm sort of surprised the guy who says he's a network architect and needs to work from home hasn't had a play around on the Ubiquiti link planner and figured out that there's surrounding villages with native FTTP, and FTTPoD showing as being available to the addresses a few hundred metres north.

 

[MissChief]

Only the most incompetent provider would fail to push back to Openreach on hourly loss of sync for a resolution.

Have a look at the ISPs listed in the second item on this page and see if that sounds like something worth trying - https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/codes-of-practice. For example, here is Vodafone's policy document http://www.vodafone.co.uk/cs/groups/public/documents/document/broadband-speeds-vcop-consumer.pdf

Sky are the same, if you can't get the speed advertised then you can leave without penalty. Most providers will allow this and Fibre tests are often more sensitive to issues as well.

 

[Caged]

An hourly drop would totally slam the DLM as well, so that would guarantee the line dropping below the guaranteed speed. You wouldn't need to argue about the validity of a drop being a fault.

I mean, it's meant to be like this:

 

[Felon]

If it drops every hour it's still not considered a fault if OR say there is no fault on the line.

If OR say there is no fault on the line I will be held to contract even if it drops every hour. Already confirmed this with ISP. OR decide if there is a fault or not, not the customer. If OR say there is no fault you cannot end your contract.

Not sure how universal this is across ISPs but that's what I'm told.

To be fair, if your connection is dropping every hour - your ISP should easily be able to see that in it's logging and authentication systems, and it's pretty normal for them to push back on OR for a resolution, regardless of what OR actually say to you. If they refuse to cooperate and still take your money, just tell a judge and get a big chunk of your money back, (they'll fold before it gets to that)

 

[Faustus]

This is 2017, not 1999. Other countries have managed to roll out FTTP to the majority of their population, or are in the process of doing so. We're already lagging behind most of Europe, and Asia.

Why are we so happy to defend BT's profit-making even if it sets us even further back?

Are we British so genuinely hyper-capitalist that we're prepared to put corporate profits above social and economic progress for all? Yes?

Have you researched the 'other countries' you mention e.g. size of country, terrain, population, population areas, funding etc. etc.? You keep going on about BT and no other company - why? BTW copper has a very long lifespan, 1970s to present day for copper is not a long time.