Are you worried about the future of diesel cars?

jigger · 13 Nov 2017 at 13:37

Joe T said:
More nonsense.

The largest EV on the market, charging in a coal-heavy part of the US is comparable to a very small ICE, assuming the rapid decarbonising of the power system that's underway grinds to a halt.

Source

Still the most efficient car seems to be the light petrol. If the industry had a big push in that direction we would be in a better place.

jigger · 13 Nov 2017 at 13:39

Dangerous Dave said:
What will happen after diesel cars are taxed into the scrap yard a new study will find out the issues with small turbo direct injection petrol's that everyone one switched to and a government think tank will tax them out the market and we will be back into large NA port injection petrol's maybe America was right all along

I was reading an article where in the high pollution zones a large percentage of pollution is caused by heating properties and the government want to move away from gas boilers to reduce this. Just wait until a modern day house hold fires up a 20-30KW electric boiler followed by charging two cars with 30kw fast chargers the power grid will collapse

Diesel generators to the recuse.

Nasher · 13 Nov 2017 at 13:41

jigger said:
Still the most efficient car seems to be the light petrol. If the industry had a big push in that direction we would be in a better place.

TBH they kind of were already. But now that they have to add hybrid stuff, it's going to make them really heavy again.

[TW]Fox · 13 Nov 2017 at 13:42

I like how the ice examples are either a twin turbo V8 or a tiny little hatchback. I wonder how it compares with the cars we really drive?

johnny6 · 13 Nov 2017 at 13:44

nkata said:
That is as a result of carrying around all the anti emission, passenger safety cells, air bags, impact crush zones and assorted electronic gizmos that are must haves now.

Try driving a 1960's Ford Anglia for exposure to lightweight motoring.

Time to bring back the Renault 5 GT Turbo. Light, small engine, turbo charged......... Satisfying turbo Laaggggggg

jigger · 13 Nov 2017 at 13:46

Nasher said:
TBH they kind of were already. But now that they have to add hybrid stuff, it's going to make them really heavy again.

Yeah. We need to resurrect Colin Chapman and get him advising the motor industry.

Nasher · 13 Nov 2017 at 13:48

johnny6 said:
Time to bring back the Renault 5 GT Turbo. Light, small engine, turbo charged......... Satisfying turbo Laaggggggg

Only problem with the very light and powerful combo is you need downforce to provide grip. That's why a lot of cars from that era ended up written off

jigger · 13 Nov 2017 at 13:50

Nasher said:
Only problem with the very light and powerful combo is you need downforce to provide grip. That's why a lot of cars from that era ended up written off

Clowns and trees killed most of them.

johnny6 · 13 Nov 2017 at 13:55

Nasher said:
Only problem with the very light and powerful combo is you need downforce to provide grip. That's why a lot of cars from that era ended up written off

So Light, small engine, turbo charged, congestion reducing (through death/hospitalisation)............... Satisfying turbo Laaggggggg

jigger · 13 Nov 2017 at 14:02

johnny6 said:
So Light, small engine, turbo charged, congestion reducing (through death/hospitalisation)............... Satisfying turbo Laaggggggg

Only if we start producing 1970's designed cars again.

Joe T · 13 Nov 2017 at 14:29

Nasher said:
Also all the rare earth metals used to build them? That's another brewing problem.

People (not necessarily you) seem to be equating the extraction of lithium in a battery to the extraction of oil for an ICE. The reality of how much lithium a car such as Nissan Leaf needs is only about 4kg.

And obviously the batteries will generally have second life after being used in a vehicle (usually a less intensive application such as stationary storage).

jigger said:
Still the most efficient car seems to be the light petrol. If the industry had a big push in that direction we would be in a better place.

If your electricity comes mostly from coal(as per the chart), then yes. Fortunately, ours does not.

Nasher · 13 Nov 2017 at 15:01

Joe T said:
People (not necessarily you) seem to be equating the extraction of lithium in a battery to the extraction of oil for an ICE. The reality of how much lithium a car such as Nissan Leaf needs is only about 4kg.

And obviously the batteries will generally have second life after being used in a vehicle (usually a less intensive application such as stationary storage).

If your electricity comes mostly from coal(as per the chart), then yes. Fortunately, ours does not.

Rare earth metals are e.g. Gold, which is used for the electrical contacts. EVs need a lot more than other cars and as more Evs are producted it's going to get rarer and more expensive.

Joe T · 13 Nov 2017 at 15:13

Nasher said:
Rare earth metals are e.g. Gold, which is used for the electrical contacts. EVs need a lot more than other cars and as more Evs are producted it's going to get rarer and more expensive.

Yes, there will be a change in the way some commodities are priced. Oil might go down, cobalt might go up. What will also be saved are all the rare metals currently used in catalytic converters for example.

Remember, change has winners and losers. It isnt always bad.

jigger · 13 Nov 2017 at 18:20

Joe T said:
People (not necessarily you) seem to be equating the extraction of lithium in a battery to the extraction of oil for an ICE. The reality of how much lithium a car such as Nissan Leaf needs is only about 4kg.

And obviously the batteries will generally have second life after being used in a vehicle (usually a less intensive application such as stationary storage).

If your electricity comes mostly from coal(as per the chart), then yes. Fortunately, ours does not.

A new Tesla every three years isn't ecologically friendly. Going nuclear powered is topical and super expensive now we don't build our own power stations. Not to mention a Tesla isn't in most people's price range to start with.

b0rn2sk8 · 13 Nov 2017 at 19:14

jigger said:
A new Tesla every three years isn't ecologically friendly. Going nuclear powered is topical and super expensive now we don't build our own power stations. Not to mention a Tesla isn't in most people's price range to start with.

Buying a new car every 3 years isn't ecologically friendly regardless of fuel type. Nuclear isn't regarded as the worlds energy need solution either, yes we are getting a new one but its not going to make a dent. We have so much un-tapped wind, solar and tidal in this country that needs developing, we more wind and tidal than any another other country in the EU. Offshore wind is now less than half the price of Hinkley.....

Over the next 20 we will move more towards local generation and storage for our energy needs, with gas fuelled power stations being there to pick up the slack where needed.

Also why do you need to buy a Tesla? There are other EV's and PHEV's out there and many more to come.

jigger · 13 Nov 2017 at 19:32

b0rn2sk8 said:
Buying a new car every 3 years isn't ecologically friendly regardless of fuel type. Nuclear isn't regarded as the worlds energy need solution either, yes we are getting a new one but its not going to make a dent. We have so much un-tapped wind, solar and tidal in this country that needs developing, we more wind and tidal than any another other country in the EU. Offshore wind is now less than half the price of Hinkley.....

Over the next 20 we will move more towards local generation and storage for our energy needs, with gas fuelled power stations being there to pick up the slack where needed.

Also why do you need to buy a Tesla? There are other EV's and PHEV's out there and many more to come.

We are talking about cleaning up the mess we've made aren't we?

The average Joe swaps cars around every three years so that's the biggest slice of the market to go after. The problem is how many average Joe's would spend £70k Tesla every three years and it looks like electric cars are just moving the pollution from roads and creating a potentially bigger problem for another generation.

Nuclear power is the only viable and best option we have.

Jonnycoupe · 13 Nov 2017 at 21:51

Nasher said:
Rare earth metals are e.g. Gold, which is used for the electrical contacts. EVs need a lot more than other cars and as more Evs are producted it's going to get rarer and more expensive.

Rare earth and you quote gold! Hahah

Nasher · 14 Nov 2017 at 08:46

b0rn2sk8 said:
Buying a new car every 3 years isn't ecologically friendly regardless of fuel type. Nuclear isn't regarded as the worlds energy need solution either, yes we are getting a new one but its not going to make a dent. We have so much un-tapped wind, solar and tidal in this country that needs developing, we more wind and tidal than any another other country in the EU. Offshore wind is now less than half the price of Hinkley.....

Over the next 20 we will move more towards local generation and storage for our energy needs, with gas fuelled power stations being there to pick up the slack where needed.

Also why do you need to buy a Tesla? There are other EV's and PHEV's out there and many more to come.

TBH we should be focusing on tital power instead of wind. Tital is always there, wind isn't and it wastes a lot of space :/

Alibaba99 · 14 Nov 2017 at 09:34

Tidal isn't always there either. Not much going for Germany for example.

Nasher · 14 Nov 2017 at 10:20

Alibaba99 said:
Tidal isn't always there either. Not much going for Germany for example.

I mean we as in the UK

We have something like 5000 miles of coast line.