We have two diesels running, a 2014 focus and my beloved T5 transporter i have spent 1000's on, and I am extremely concerned that we're going to be priced off the road with huge road tax hikes and vat on fuel. Very angry with the government with this U-turn and quite frankly expecting the worst. Are there any clues as to exactly what is going to happen and when? (apologies haven't read the whole thread).
Are you worried about the future of diesel cars?
- Thread starter iaind
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I wouldn't worry about it. Nothing will dramatically change imo.
But, it's clearly shifting. You haven't been able to buy a petrol powered A6 (S6 and RS6 excepted) for the last few years (since the facelift at least). Suddenly, 1.8TFSI and 2.0TFSI engines have re-appeared on the configurator.
But still the diesel is probably the one to go for.
I was after an Xtrail petrol but all that was avalible was the 1.6 DIG-T and I couldn't get that with four wheel drive. IIRC it wasn't available with 7 seats either.
For most people, yes probably.
If I were ordering one I'd likely go for the 252PS 2.0TFSI Quattro, but I do very little mileage these days (my S3 has done ~5,000 in 12 months).
Other than direct injection, the ability to run without directly controlling the throttle plate (BMW Valvetronic), Fiat's Twin-air that allows two valve openings during a single induction cycle, moving turbos from being the preserve of specialist cars to general driving,VNT turbos there have been absolutely no developments in petrol engines.
That's only true for European cars really and mainly German ones at that.
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Direct developments no, but there have been other things happening, like the VW group running different numbers of cylinders depending on throttle, so whilst no massive technical breakthrough its having an effect on MPG so its as good as a breakthrough, for example.
Cars are actually becoming lighter now as well, we may have reached peak weight. So many safety devices and lazyniess devices were added they beat the natural weihgt reduction programs, now we are seeing models being launched with considerable weihgt savings vs the previous gen, 60kgs is quite common. Thats the equiv to a normal person removed from every single journey. Its even more critical for e cars so I expect it to happen more, as some pointed out elsewhere carbon fibre is going far more mainstream.
Tides will turn I think, investment will balance between the two, but more and more will switch to elec. The existing car companies are aware they have to think outside the box, the new entrants eg Tesla , Dyson! are starting will clean sheets of paper. The switch to elec has in effect been an industry disruptor, trying to make cars that suit elec and conventional drive trains means one of both are flawed.
Diesel still has its place, its great for long mile munching journeys as its far more suited to only just ticking over, so its also suited to lots of stop start unfortunately and hence why we see more diesels sitting there in queues of traffic.
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How does that make any sense for traffic. They never get warm, the after treatment doesn't get up to appropriate temps and they clatter away, either when idling or going through the motions of stop-start.
We see diesels in traffic because of the daft decade of incentive which is now being corrected due to OEMs lying about NOx and cities breaking legal limits of the stuff.
Sitting in traffic, diesels are no better than petrol (and it's not healthy for diesel engines to only do short journeys in traffic). Especially with start/stop. Much worse if you want to factor in noise and pollution. Diesel fumes tend to float around at ground level and get inside buildings and other people's cars.
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I love how this has become the accepted narrative now and everyone just glosses over the fact that we massively tax fuel and as a result the market priorities using as little of it as possible.
Company cars aside there isn't much of an incentive to get diesel beyond the often significant fuel consumption benefits.
Mine for example is only 40 quid a year less to tax than the petrol version.
Diesels are a consequence of decades of European government fuel duty policies.
Do people in Dubai buy diesel cars?
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I guess it depends on your defintion of stop start because I have for years and also know loads of people who travel a bit into local towns and cities then hit the traffic so they have warm engines when they hit the traffic
Different I guess to people living in a city who are stop start the moment they start their journey
Urban journeys are still more economical with a diesel, higher mpg, means more economical for the driver
I completely agree on the Nox, DPF etc issues and for people who only really drive in urban type traffic they really should be encouraged away from diesel
Lets not over exaggerate either, diesels do get warm, they do not get hot enough to trigger a proper DPF regen, but they get hot enough to have up to temp water etc
You can't claim they are neither more economical than petrol and also don't get up to temp, the two things are related as the heat is a result of the fuel burning
Different I guess to people living in a city who are stop start the moment they start their journey
Urban journeys are still more economical with a diesel, higher mpg, means more economical for the driver
I completely agree on the Nox, DPF etc issues and for people who only really drive in urban type traffic they really should be encouraged away from diesel
Lets not over exaggerate either, diesels do get warm, they do not get hot enough to trigger a proper DPF regen, but they get hot enough to have up to temp water etc
You can't claim they are neither more economical than petrol and also don't get up to temp, the two things are related as the heat is a result of the fuel burning
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Good post, lets face it diesels were always more econmical, when government policy lent towards people using them more even more investment made them even better, not really improving efficiency that much, but moving diesels away from being terribly slow and noisy to being far faster and far less noisy. They became far more acceptable to have for the average person, along with the horrendous cost of fuel economy moved to the top few slots of lots of peoples buying criteria. Years ago it was 0-60 for so many people, now its fuel economy, but for lots of bad reasons.
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Yeah I know, I am not trying to make out like any engine is good in stop start even before you factor in cold running.
I drive a diesel as well and know the MPG isn't great to start with, I used to have a petrol, that also sucked in the cold stop start conditions
I would argue that the petrol warmed up quicker and probably got to its more efficient operating temperature quicker than the diesel. That's because it burned more fuel though
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Thanks for confirming its more efficient which was my point
I didn't say massively more, just more.
But real world the main benefit of diesel is cruising and that only really happens on main roads, as soon as you add in accelerating the MPG drops, and its hard to drive diesel as efficiently when accelerating as most people tend to gun them a bit harder to get acceptable performance. Drive an old non turbo diesel to see how MPG was far higher in that sort of situation, but also how they are terribly slow, then you realise how the turbo changed the performance.
I assume like most people you 5 seater is also mainly carrying you so petrol is less impacted.
When you load up a car with 5 people and a few suitcases etc the petrols will suffer more than the diesels.
Edit to add an example, numbers a bit out of date so not refelcting latest duty etc, but I think this highlights why people will still be drawn to diesel. Buying a £20k car but worrying about saving £300 a year, and the £300 a year highly dependant on the residual value of the diesel
Petrol:
- Golf Match 1.4 TSI 122hp – £19,100
- Value after 3 years – £7,640 (40% of new car price)
- Fuel economy, urban – 34.4 mpg
- Fuel economy, combined – 45.6 mpg
- Road tax (first year included in new car price) – £130/year
- Golf Match 2.0 TDI 140hp – £21,090
- Value after 3 years – £9,491 (45% of new car price)
- Fuel economy, urban – 46.3 mpg
- Fuel economy, combined – 58.9 mpg
- Road tax (first year included in new car price) – £95/year
Total cost of buying and running each car for three years (excluding insurance, servicing and maintenance) are as follows:
Petrol:
- Using Urban fuel economy figures – £17,335
- Using Combined fuel economy figures – £15,964
- Using Urban fuel economy figures – £16,293
- Using Combined fuel economy figures – £15,300
shamelessly ripped from http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/fuel-economy-petrol-or-diesel/
Thanks for confirming its more efficient which was my point
I didn't say massively more, just more.
By a trivial amount! Maybe 1mpg?