The 'ship them back to their own country' mentality

Ayahuasca said:
I don't think anyone really cares to be honest, barely any members are going to read it and I think most are mature enough not to make snap judgments of others regardless of whether you did that yourself or not :) I agree with Freakbro's post earlier, your tone seems to have shifted as I can't recall posts like that from you in the many other immigration threads on here.
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I've already said today I'm not in the best frame of mind. I feel very ill and am extremely bored. Can't see me shifting this man flu before christmas so thoroughly peed off. May be being a tad more aggressive than usual. My apologies if so.

I haven't really got a problem with immigrants thats the thing. They've been so good to me when I've been in hospital right through from the Iranian nurses all the way through to an amazing cardiologist from Lithuania. It may be coming across as though I have a problem, but my main argument was with immigrant criminals, not the honest, hard working ones.
 
rare said:
Sure, easy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/eu-migrants-without-job-make-city-size-bristol/
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You have no idea what that is even telling you. It even says there are no stats on how many of them are claiming benefits. Maybe they are housewife's being supported by their husband? Hmm? Didn't think about that one did you

rare said:
It’s not for me to define
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It's not for you to define, but somehow you know it's not at the right level?

But as I have already pointed out, it is too high if it exceeds the requirements of the labour market to such a high rate.
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Which shows you have no idea what you are talking about since unemployment is at record low levels
 
It's also been debunked.

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/debunked-eu-migrants-without-job-nearly-equivalent-bristol/

Some have suggested the figure is unreliable because it includes “spouses raising children and students”. The ONS generally defines “inactive” as someone who is not in a job and is not looking for work. They could be a full-time parent, full-time carer, early retiree or a full-time student. However, a breakdown of the ONS data shows that the 390,000 figure is made up of unemployed people and people who are inactive “for reasons such as retirement, illness, disability and looking after family”.
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He is concerned the “soundbite” overlooks the fact that just under 80 per cent of EU nationals are in employment compared to 74 per cent of UK nationals – although the media has acknowledged this in their reports.
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rare said:
Sure, easy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/eu-migrants-without-job-make-city-size-bristol/
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The ONS' definition of inactive includes people who have retired or look after family members. Do you think people who work here for their entire lives should be expelled upon retirement or that women who stay home to look after the kids while their husband is working should be turfed out?

And in response to the OP, she's a horrible woman with crap opinions and won't change her mind. Don't bother discussing it with her.
 
rare said:
So how do you think they are surviving? They are either being paid by cash, and not contributing, OR claiming benefits. Or both.
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Oh yea, not just housewives....but children and students

You do get suckered in do easily don't you. BTW, I have this great snake oil to sell you, cures all ills!!!
 
Damn, this thread took off!

Mother in law sounds just like my Mum :P
She also says that petty criminals should be strung up or shot - for something as minor as working for the Daily Mail.
 
Even with this supposed evidence, the facts are they make a net contribution to the economy, so actually it's worth them all being here. The problem with statistics is they don't explain why people are in that situation, maybe they've got into financial trouble, maybe they're in between jobs? The problem with these headlines is they immediately send you towards "send them back" - I get it, that's the design but it is dangerous.

European immigrants to the UK paid much more in taxes than they received in benefits over the past decade, making a net fiscal contribution of £20bn, say researchers.
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https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Tend to trust the FT on financial stuff.
 
Freakbro said:
Which shows you have no idea what you are talking about since unemployment is at record low levels
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Those figures mask current problems in the labour market, which is being bolstered due to the number of very low wage positions. Those low wage jobs have even more pressure applied to them because of immigration, effectively making the poor poorer or at least fixed. Even the Bank of England has accepted that.
 
Gigabit said:
Even with this supposed evidence, the facts are they make a net contribution to the economy, so actually it's worth them all being here. The problem with statistics is they don't explain why people are in that situation, maybe they've got into financial trouble, maybe they're in between jobs? The problem with these headlines is they immediately send you towards "send them back" - I get it, that's the design but it is dangerous.



https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Tend to trust the FT on financial stuff.
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Yeah - European migrants. But overall tells a different story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ion-from-outside-Europe-cost-120-billion.html
 
Gigabit said:
So the Government has had the ability to control this for decades and has failed to do so, why do you think that might be?
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As I’ve already highlighted, it is successive governments at fault - not migrants.

None of them have had the political will to do so, even though for decades polls have showed that the general population have serious concerns over the levels of immigration. Their concerns are not unfounded, nor can or should they just be dismissed as being racist.
 
rare said:
As I’ve already highlighted, it is successive governments at fault - not migrants.

None of them have had the political will to do so, even though for decades polls have showed that the general population have serious concerns over the levels of immigration. Their concerns are not unfounded, nor can or should they just be dismissed as being racist.
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But why have they not done it?
 
rare said:
Those figures mask current problems in the labour market, which is being bolstered due to the number of very low wage positions. Those low wage jobs have even more pressure applied to them because of immigration, effectively making the poor poorer or at least fixed. Even the Bank of England has accepted that.
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Ahh yes, the masking rhetoric, I was waiting for that as the next fall back position. The introduction of the living wage, and it's current historically high level, is what has caused wage suppression, not immigrants. Unfortunately the 'minimum' wage has turned into the 'maximum' wage by a lot of companies, because they now know what the legal minimum they can pay their workers. And I say this from a person who is an advocate of the minimum wage, to stop employer exploitation, but also as a business manager who understands the impact upon certain sectors.

The jobs are there, irrespective of them being low paid. The wage suppression in this country since the economic crash of 2008 has nothing to do with minimum wage migrants. The old mantra of "basic supply and demand will cause wage inflation" as a raison d'etre for stopping immigration has been proved as false as "quantative easing" causes inflation....which was the genaral school of thought....until it didn't.
 
Freakbro said:
Ahh yes, the masking rhetoric, I was waiting for that as the next fall back position. The introduction of the living wage, and it's current historically high level, is what has caused wage suppression, not immigrants. Unfortunately the 'minimum' wage has turned into the 'maximum' wage by a lot of companies, because they now know what the legal minimum they can pay their workers. And I say this from a person who is an advocate of the minimum wage, to stop employer exploitation, but also as a business manager who understands the impact upon certain sectors.

The jobs are there, irrespective of them being low paid. The wage suppression in this country since the economic crash of 2008 has nothing to do with minimum wage migrants. The old mantra of "basic supply and demand will cause wage inflation" as a raison d'etre for stopping immigration has been proved as false as "quantative easing" causes inflation....which was the genaral school of thought....until it didn't.
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Not true. It’s been recognised, even by the BOE, that large scale immigration of low skilled workers has had a negative impact on low wage jobs. So much for ‘masking rheroric’.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/wor...n-on-occupational-wages-evidence-from-britain
 
rare said:
Not true. It’s been recognised, even by the BOE, that large scale immigration of low skilled workers has had a negative impact on low wage jobs. So much for ‘masking rheroric’.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/wor...n-on-occupational-wages-evidence-from-britain
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That's ok, because I know you haven't actually read that report, apart from the headline you think it means.

6. Conclusions
This paper asks whether immigration has any impact on wages. It answers this question by
considering the variation of wages and immigration across regions, occupations, and time.
Occupations turn out to be a relatively important dimension. Once the occupational
breakdown is incorporated into a regional analysis of immigration, the immigrant-native
ratio has a significant small impact on the average occupational wage rates of that region.
Closer examination reveals that the biggest effect is in the semi/unskilled services sector,
where a 10 percentage point rise in the proportion of immigrants is associated with a 2
percent reduction in pay. Where immigrants come from — EU or non-EU — appears to
have no impact on our economy wide results; with the impact within the semi/unskilled
services sector being small. These findings accord well with intuition and anecdotal
evidence, but do not seem to have been recorded previously in the empirical literature.
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There's always been the acknowledgement that there has been a minor suppression in the unskilled end of the labour market, but the overall effect is positive to the economy. Which is more important when looking at the bigger picture of what's best for the country, no?

We are all better off when there's more money for the Govt to spend Harsh yes, but you right wingers aren't generally known for your sentimentality.
 
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