Performance cars - future value?

Felon

Felon

Felon

Soldato
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I've been toying with the idea of buying a brand new/almost new performance car, possibly an M4 or a C 63 AMG, something along those lines - but in recent months I've found myself being put off by the incoming legislation and obvious move away from conventional internal combustion engines, to hybrids and electrics,

My worry - if I bought something like an M3/M4, is that within a few years it could depreciate an alarming amount, especially considering BMW / Merc are looking at hybrid power trains for their performance cars,

Is this bothering anyone else right now? are people considering holding out a few years - or am I worrying too much? is the demand for things like M cars still so high that there won't be much of a difference for the next 10 years at least?
 
If buying new, get a BMW M2, it is depreciating the least so far, new M3/M4 depreciate hard, very hard. Not sure on the AMG but would suspect so as well.

You would be better off buying an older and arguable more fun (less capable) but get an nice E92 M3 Competition pack or a 6.3l C63 AMG, these are now holding value or will certainly loose you far less, buy approved use to get a decent warranty. :)
 
Drivers cars will always be drivers cars so I wouldn't worry about hybrid technology and all that in the next 5 years or so.

Even if the government try and tax petrol sports cars more, the people who will be buying newish M3s will probably see an increase in tax as a cost worth paying for and be able to pay the extra tax unless it gets ridiculous.

I see tax and insurance on my cars as a cost of my hobby, instead of a golf club membership I pay the upkeep on my cars.
 
Gibbo said:
If buying new, get a BMW M2, it is depreciating the least so far, new M3/M4 depreciate hard, very hard. Not sure on the AMG but would suspect so as well.

You would be better off buying an older and arguable more fun (less capable) but get an nice E92 M3 Competition pack or a 6.3l C63 AMG, these are now holding value or will certainly loose you far less, buy approved use to get a decent warranty. :)
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Yeah a friend has the older 6.1L C63 which I quite liked,

I've been looking through the M3 and M4 used stock a little harder this morning - and yeah they really do depreciate hard, like 50% in 3-4 years pretty off putting, I'm not exactly poor - but don't fancy losing that much I would like something a bit bigger than an M2, but haven't driven one (only driven the M4) but I might consider one.

wesimmo said:
Drivers cars will always be drivers cars so I wouldn't worry about hybrid technology and all that in the next 5 years or so.

Even if the government try and tax petrol sports cars more, the people who will be buying newish M3s will probably see an increase in tax as a cost worth paying for and be able to pay the extra tax unless it gets ridiculous.

I see tax and insurance on my cars as a cost of my hobby, instead of a golf club membership I pay the upkeep on my cars.
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Yeah, I think I agree really - people still want fast cars, I get that, and I'm pretty sure very soon we'll be seeing the next generation of M/AMG cars with hybrid power trains, I'm just a little dubious about dropping a lot of cash on something like it right now - as things are changing pretty quickly, don't fancy spending £40-60k on something that's going to be worth £15k in 3 years, because the market drops out for such a thing in the wake of new tech,

Maybe I'm just paranoid :p
 
Screeeech said:
Yeah a friend has the older 6.1L C63 which I quite liked,

I've been looking through the M3 and M4 used stock a little harder this morning - and yeah they really do depreciate hard, like 50% in 3-4 years pretty off putting, I'm not exactly poor - but don't fancy losing that much I would like something a bit bigger than an M2, but haven't driven one (only driven the M4) but I might consider one.



Yeah, I think I agree really - people still want fast cars, I get that, and I'm pretty sure very soon we'll be seeing the next generation of M/AMG cars with hybrid power trains, I'm just a little dubious about dropping a lot of cash on something like it right now - as things are changing pretty quickly, don't fancy spending £40-60k on something that's going to be worth £15k in 3 years, because the market drops out for such a thing in the wake of new tech,

Maybe I'm just paranoid :p
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The other fantastic bargain at the moment is the 2-4yr old M5's, 55-70k car new, plenty going for around 25-30k now and those are pretty damn rapid in a straight line, plenty of room inside, they sound a bit rubbish compared to the NA V8's but I am sure once could throw an exhaust to let the V8 rumble a bit more.
 
Gibbo said:
The other fantastic bargain at the moment is the 2-4yr old M5's, 55-70k car new, plenty going for around 25-30k now and those are pretty damn rapid in a straight line, plenty of room inside, they sound a bit rubbish compared to the NA V8's but I am sure once could throw an exhaust to let the V8 rumble a bit more.
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Just looking on the approved used BMW search, there does seem to be a lot going for 25-35k for sure, not driven an M5 before, but would be interested to do so,

I think doing something like that is a lot more sensible than getting something new, the levels of depreciation are insane
 
Those depreciation levels are pretty normal % wise
Why would a performance car (main stream) suffer any significantly different depreciation to a normal car.

It just hurts more because its a more expensive car.

Interesting point on could that depreciation % go up though, I would say there is just as much chance that it could go down.
At some point there is going to be a noticeable drop off in performance petrols from mainstream manufacturers. This is super hard to predict when it will happen, but it will come.
The last of the greats will I am sure become collectors cars, just like the best of lots of old marques/models now are.

Imagine if tomorrow BMW announced no more pure petrol M cars after 2018, lots of people would order one of the last, they would certainly hold their value.
Others will go, no bad thing, the hybrid Ms coming soon will be faster than these dinos. Some will always want that pure petrol, harking back to history.

I would buy sooner rather than later if its an itch you need to scratch. Sooner or later its going to cost significantly more to run one of these sorts of cars, just as soon as the majority are moving away from petrol/diesel the government will be able to tax the enthusiast to hell.

I hope my plan to buy an M2 or TT RS (or equiv at that time) as my last fast petrol in 5 years or so isn't too late!
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Those depreciation levels are pretty normal % wise
Why would a performance car (main stream) suffer any significantly different depreciation to a normal car.

It just hurts more because its a more expensive car.

Interesting point on could that depreciation % go up though, I would say there is just as much chance that it could go down.
At some point there is going to be a noticeable drop off in performance petrols from mainstream manufacturers. This is super hard to predict when it will happen, but it will come.
The last of the greats will I am sure become collectors cars, just like the best of lots of old marques/models now are.

Imagine if tomorrow BMW announced no more pure petrol M cars after 2018, lots of people would order one of the last, they would certainly hold their value.
Others will go, no bad thing, the hybrid Ms coming soon will be faster than these dinos. Some will always want that pure petrol, harking back to history.

I would buy sooner rather than later if its an itch you need to scratch. Sooner or later its going to cost significantly more to run one of these sorts of cars, just as soon as the majority are moving away from petrol/diesel the government will be able to tax the enthusiast to hell.

I hope my plan to buy an M2 or TT RS (or equiv at that time) as my last fast petrol in 5 years or so isn't too late!
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I think 2021-2025 will see the last of a lot of the greats. The new S650 Mustang has being cancelled by Ford, they will just keep improving the current platform and the V8 Gen3 Coyote could be scrapped after 2021 for something like a V6 TT for future Mustangs if they do, I simply cannot see them killing the Mustang brand, it would be suicidal but I can see them probably offering only a 4cyl TT, 6cyl TT and an 6cyl hybrid or 8cyl hybrid solution.

But with BMW it has already happened, there are no NA M cars any more and this is why E46 and E92 are holding or going up in value whilst the newer M4's continue to go down. There are now E92's more expensive than M4's! But for noise alone I prefer the E92, the newer M4 just sounds rubbish in comparison, it is OK by itself, but an E92 pulls along you and revs, you just want to cry.
 
Gibbo said:
I think 2021-2025 will see the last of a lot of the greats. The new S650 Mustang has being cancelled by Ford, they will just keep improving the current platform and the V8 Gen3 Coyote could be scrapped after 2021 for something like a V6 TT for future Mustangs if they do, I simply cannot see them killing the Mustang brand, it would be suicidal but I can see them probably offering only a 4cyl TT, 6cyl TT and an 6cyl hybrid or 8cyl hybrid solution.

But with BMW it has already happened, there are no NA M cars any more and this is why E46 and E92 are holding or going up in value whilst the newer M4's continue to go down. There are now E92's more expensive than M4's! But for noise alone I prefer the E92, the newer M4 just sounds rubbish in comparison, it is OK by itself, but an E92 pulls along you and revs, you just want to cry.
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Can you please confirm the 2021-25 in writing, perfect timing for me ;)

Yeah its already started, its going to happen quickly I think when it really happens big time though.

The changes to body shells will drive it IMHO. As soon as the mainstream manufacturers drop the current format and move to something more like tesla they will cease to have the platform required to host a decent petrol engine.
 
Nasher said:
Electric Mustang :D

..at which point petrolheads lose all interest in cars.
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And they will be renamed "sparkheads" or something

Unless you actually like sniffing petrol the fuel isn't that important.
Its the effect thats what gives the petrolhead the want for certain things, any everyone varies, but the sound, the feelings, etc
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Can you please confirm the 2021-25 in writing, perfect timing for me ;)

Yeah its already started, its going to happen quickly I think when it really happens big time though.

The changes to body shells will drive it IMHO. As soon as the mainstream manufacturers drop the current format and move to something more like tesla they will cease to have the platform required to host a decent petrol engine.
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Jaguar are also ending their contract with Ford in 2020 I believe for the V8 found in the F-types. Who knows what they will replace it with but I think its fair to say they won't do any more V8 SC's, best outcome is they use a V8 TT which for the glorious noise will never be as good as the current car, but of course with their introduction of a 4cyl 2.0l then they clearly want to downsize too.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
And they will be renamed "sparkheads" or something

Unless you actually like sniffing petrol the fuel isn't that important.
Its the effect thats what gives the petrolhead the want for certain things, any everyone varies, but the sound, the feelings, etc
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Petrolheads like the tinker and tune cars. You can't do that with an EV as it's basically a washing machine on wheels.
 
Screeeech said:
Doesn't the current M3 do this? it plays the engine note through the sound system or something lol?
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Virtually all modern performance cars do this to some extent now and in many it's not always obtrusive or unpleasant. Give it ten years and no one will notice or care.
 
Nasher said:
Petrolheads like the tinker and tune cars. You can't do that with an EV as it's basically a washing machine on wheels.
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Again your quoting your view as a statement.
My friend has a corvette and goes to meets (i've been to a few), most of the people there would define themselves as petrol heads, most don't get out oily rags.
Some are highly tuned, and the owners didn't do anything.

We don't know how EV will evolve so some tuning is far from impossible. Tesla for example can up the performance if they choose. Nothing to stop aftermarket tuning, it will just be different
 
Gibbo said:
If buying new, get a BMW M2, it is depreciating the least so far, new M3/M4 depreciate hard, very hard. Not sure on the AMG but would suspect so as well.
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I'd go with an M2, too, on the basis that it's far a better package (and far more enjoyable to drive) than an M3/M4.
 
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