Poll: Poll: Do you think the force is reasonable and justified?

Do you think the force used is reasonable and justifiable?

  • Yes

    Votes: 214 64.7%

  • No

    Votes: 94 28.4%

  • Unsure

    Votes: 23 6.9%
  • Total voters
    331
enkoda said:
Going by some of the reasoning people are using here, should the bouncer have floored everyone around him, just in case one of them attacked him or was armed? The very fact that the bouncer wasn't attacked with a weapon or by the lad's mates shows there was no credible threat to his safety.

This was still somebody's son laying unconscious in the road after getting "what he deserved".
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Well as far as I am aware not everyone WAS attacking the bouncer, he only floored the guy that was.

I believe that the bouncer showed a remarkable amount of self control over his actions. Adrenalin racing through his veins, the fight or flight response kicking in and he did the minimum to ensure that the assailant (which he was) doesn't get back up.

In reference to this being somebody else's son, this could be said of anyone involved in that melee and emotion adds zero weight to any reasonable conclusion.

Have I been out before and drank excessively? Yes

Have I been negligent and beyond smashed? Also yes

Have I been involved in a fight or felt that I wanted to get myself involved in a fight on the back end of it? No

Idiots will be idiots, and forget what this guy deserved, he got what he needed, and hopefully once he sobers up in hospital he realizes that perhaps he should refrain from being an idiot, and if its 100% the result of alcohol, maybe he should be more responsible next time.
 
I don't think he "deserved" to be laid out unconscious on the floor but he put himself in the situation and it ended exactly as expected. Had the bouncer kicked him on the floor, followed up with additional attacks etc. then you may have cause to say he acted excessively but that isn't what happened.

No of course he shouldn't have floored everyone, obviously only those that he perceived as an immediate threat which is what he did.

It's never nice seeing the harshness of violence, but people need to be accountable for their own actions for which they could have easily walked away from and yet chose not to.
 
The bouncers have a right to protect themselves just like anyone else. As well as keep the peace in and around the property they are working at. It's fine for them to step in and prevent fights, but they shouldn't be getting stuck in.
 
The fact people think this is justifiable in itself makes me sad. Restrain said person as I said before and remove him the immediate area be that into the club until the police arrive or elsewhere. To the person who said there judgement is impaired in such situations - isn't that what the training is for ?
 
kindai said:
Its well documented in the heat of the moment rational thinking is highly impaired. Hes just punched a guy down whos came at him 2 or 3 times swinging before. The bouncer simply wouldnt of been able to make any accurate assessment as to the guys condition, if he has mates who might back him up, if weapons may be in play, if people may be trying to get behind him. A lot of potential if's that could lead to the bouncer ending up seriously injured or dead.

In the situation he made the right call, eliminate the immediate threat (the guy coming at him for a 3rd or 4th time) and back away to assess.
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Just because his judgement is impaired doesnt mean he made the right choice but means he is just as easily capable of making the wrong choice.
I dont agree with people who have that american cop mentality of just kill the guy because they feel anyone breathing may kill them
 
Evangelion said:
He knocked two guys down, and their heads hit the pavement. When they got up, he did it again and again. I watched their heads bounce off the concrete. Not sure how you missed that...
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I'm not sure how you saw that. I can't see heads bouncing off the concrete. The only time a head made contact with the ground was following the third punch... and it hardly bounces.
 
Evangelion said:
Judging by some of the comments in this thread, the police benchmark for 'credible threat' is 'he was still breathing.'
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there's a big difference between "breathing" and "back on your feed advancing on someone ready for a fight"

at what point is culpability going to be put on the drunk? because he had 2 opportunities to not get hit again and he chose twice not to stay down, or the very least get back up and walk away.

the fact he thought he could still win after being smacked down could have either been alchoholic/drug rage or bravado born from having a handy weapon to even the odds, difference is the bouncer doesn't have the luxury of being able to re-wind and re-play the scenario then sit and think for a few minutes to truly be confident the guy really was unarmed.
 
Amnesia said:
I dont agree with people who have that american cop mentality of just kill the guy because they feel anyone breathing may kill them
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What? I never said kill the guy I said eliminate the threat, in each time it was a single measured punch that put the guy down. Completely proportionate. Just because the drunken idiot wants to have another go isn't the bouncers fault at all.
 
kindai said:
What? I never said kill the guy I said eliminate the threat, in each time it was a single measured punch that put the guy down. Completely proportionate. Just because the drunken idiot wants to have another go isn't the bouncers fault at all.
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THIS^^^
 
kindai said:
What? I never said kill the guy I said eliminate the threat, in each time it was a single measured punch that put the guy down. Completely proportionate. Just because the drunken idiot wants to have another go isn't the bouncers fault at all.
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Didnt say you did
 
I have absolutely no sympathy for the drunk people, they could be tooled up or anything so the bouncer didn't want to take the risk, and they did attack him first.

Probably one punch too many though if you're being critical...
 
Don't think it is justified, though I don't feel any sympathy for those hit. The bouncer has to be very careful, as a few people have been killed from single blows- especially when he's got such a size and power advantage.

Difficult situation, but don't think belting people is the answer. Don't want to end up with a US-style society of hit/blast first, think later.
 
Rifte said:
Well as far as I am aware not everyone WAS attacking the bouncer, he only floored the guy that was.

I believe that the bouncer showed a remarkable amount of self control over his actions. Adrenalin racing through his veins, the fight or flight response kicking in and he did the minimum to ensure that the assailant (which he was) doesn't get back up.

In reference to this being somebody else's son, this could be said of anyone involved in that melee and emotion adds zero weight to any reasonable conclusion.

Have I been out before and drank excessively? Yes

Have I been negligent and beyond smashed? Also yes

Have I been involved in a fight or felt that I wanted to get myself involved in a fight on the back end of it? No

Idiots will be idiots, and forget what this guy deserved, he got what he needed, and hopefully once he sobers up in hospital he realizes that perhaps he should refrain from being an idiot, and if its 100% the result of alcohol, maybe he should be more responsible next time.
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Did the bouncer have the option of returning to the safety of the club? Yes.
Did he choose to do so, thus at least attempting to defuse the situation? No.
Did he knock out a guy who looked liked he was drunk, possibly dazed from two other punches and hitting his head against the side of a car? Yes.
Was the bouncer attacked with a weapon? No.
Did the lad's mates join in the attack? No.
The bouncer could have done a lot more to defuse this, but didn't.
 
One punch to many that, in fact, that first punch could have been fatal. I have no sympathy mind you for drunk and disorder like that but I do feel the bouncer could have gone about it in a better way. Also the force of each punch was not needed, that was a lot of venom behind each one.
 
Completely justified! I worked in a large pub in the main clubbing area where i lived and have seen this situation on many occasions and have had to help the door staff out on many occasions when there was to many people (customers) involved. Sometimes it take a big hit like that to defuse the situation, sometimes it gets worse. Doormen and women have a very hard job, dealing with drunks, avoiding getting attacked by people who are tooled up or getting glassed.
 
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