Stopped from seeing or speaking to my son on his 9th birthday, today.

Hi Vidar,

A lot of posters unfortunately - I firmly believe - giving incorrect advice in telling you to run to Solicitors to let them "handle it". While Solicitors may give a feeling of peace of mind, it doesn't last long. In my extensive experience of advising other Dads in your position, a good Solicitor (in respect of family matters) are rarer than hens teeth). I can give a few examples of the levels of knowledge of solicitors/Court Legal Advisors/Judges:

I presume you are referring to me amongst others.

Vidar needs legal counsel on a civil case against the EX, and public bodies (Inc police) on the damaging accusations to him and failure of action to protect him. This has nothing to do with the family courts at all or custody of his kids. That's a separate matter completely.

Civil cases, in regard to what I am suggesting, are a hugely complicated matter, not that expensive to progress though to where he needs to get some resolve and it's very reliant on the accuracy of the circumstances in question which we are not wholly party to. They are however very costly to the defendant which motivates action.

The reason I won't give specifics or offer more advice is simply that we only have one side of the events from @Vidar and whilst I don't doubt his struggles we have very limited insight into everything and only the emotive posting.
 
My brother went through something similar.

She had him arrested for an assault which never happened.

After a long legal battle he won 50% custody of the kids (they aren't actually even his biological kids, but he'd raised them since they were months 6 and 2 years old.

Get the best representation you can, record and document EVERYTHING where possible and stay strong and focussed.

Best of luck
 
Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply I really appreciate it, though it is really sad to see so many people going or having gone through similar things.


Hi Vidar,

Sorry to hear of this happening. Sadly it is an unspoken epidemic in this country. There are hundreds of thousands of Fathers and I suspect nearing a million children in this situation because of a vituperative ex-wife.

As I have alluded to several times before I've had to go through the circus ("Family" Court aka The Mothers Court) and made the decision after almost 6years that the best decision would be to walk away.

I used to give advice on https://www.dad.info/forum/legal-eagle

A lot of posters unfortunately - I firmly believe - giving incorrect advice in telling you to run to Solicitors to let them "handle it". While Solicitors may give a feeling of peace of mind, it doesn't last long. In my extensive experience of advising other Dads in your position, a good Solicitor (in respect of family matters) are rarer than hens teeth). I can give a few examples of the levels of knowledge of solicitors/Court Legal Advisors/Judges:

- I demanded an action be taken in line with the legal standpoint and highlighted the law and legal precedent before 2 Solicitors with nearly 30years experience between them (yes I asked). Neither acting for me. Neither accepted the Law and one in particular refused to accept it was even a provision within the Childrens Act. It was there and the 2 of them were both surprised
- Legal Adviser (a job attracting £45,000+ of state money in its first year) who did not know the Law, flouted the Law and deliberately and methodically went out of her way to do so. Despite my protests and a literal shouting match back and forth in the Court room. A Judge later confirmed what I knew that there has been a serious incident of Law and rules of the Court not being followed and broken and he quizzed why I had accepted it. I informed I hadn't but followed it up with a complaint that I was at the time awaiting. No further action. The Head Solicitor (yes, that's right, Solicitor who was in charge of several Courts) found the LA had acted correctly. My follow up letter highlighting the Judges remarks, a further show in Legal precedent from Family Law Week went ignored.
- A Judge who upon another no show (my ex attended less than 50% of Court cases (I estimate more than 25) in the time it was before Court)) refused to continue to allow the hearing to go ahead (despite me showing up for the appointment as per directions of 9.30 and not being seen until after 3pm) stating that my ex could argue not having a fair hearing. This despite several requests to reconsider under 2 cases overseen by the Head of the Family Court Sir James Munby where this had continued and one even highlighting why they should continue in absence.

The Family Courts are a nightmare and your situation can go one of two ways. The good may be your ex is scared by them, in which case you can usually get and keep contact, the other is that she knows the Family Court will do nothing - not a thing - regardless of how many breaches and will take no punitive action whatsoever. In the former, you should be able to see your kids fairly and consistently. The latter, there may come a point as it has/had for me that continuing the fight was not worth it any longer. My friend - bless his cotton socks - is and has always been as stubborn as they come and is still fighting through family Courts now after 8years. Last I spoke to him his ex had breached contact orders (CAO's now they are called) 7 times and he has missed out on hundreds of Contact days. He says he will never give up on his kids.

Straight up advice:
- Unless you know of a fantastic Family Court Solicitor: Do NOT enlist one. You may pay £2,000 just to get it to Court and then be given a CAO that isn't worth the paper its written on
- Show up to Court in the worst clothes you can - have no respect for the place. Whether you are suited, booted and slick or (as I started to in the latter years) dressed in ripped shorts, creased shirts and unshaven for several days, it makes not a scintilla of difference
- Don't be polite in Court, be forward, direct and tell them what they should be doing (because they don't have a clue (unless your Judge is Judge Richard Taylor))
- Any allegations should be treated as such and if she makes false allegations make sure they are counter complained about by the Police as false allegations are a crime and even if they cannot be proven - should be acted upon immediately to avoid further allegations. Oh, also, if she alleges you take drugs (and you know 100% you don't) make sure you stipulate that any need to take drug tests she meets 100% of the costs including the time take off work to have them - another friend of mine didn't take my advice and it cost him £600! that she then followed up by saying his Mother (a Nurse!) was also taking them. He then took my advice... she decided not to continue with that tact)
- Any instances of violence or aggression record on your phone. Get a voice/call recorder on your phone. It was a godsend for me when Police were knocking. Edit: I wish I had of done so when I had a car driven at me twice!
- Treat Social Workers (who are an absolute disgrace) as people who are there to be on the side of your ex. They are in the vast majority of cases. There is a movement going to ensure that any interaction with Social Workers MUST be recorded. If they refuse you can inform them "So you are one of the ones who lies and makes things up". Any Social Worker worth their weight should have no problem with this.

At the end of the day its about planning a good case. Recording instances, reading up on Law, getting advice (from Dad Talk) nd showing up - because if you don't the case can and usually gets thrown out straight away. Point out what they are doing wrong and how they should be doing it. Beyond that it is purely about luck!

I wish you all the luck in getting it sorted.

@RaohNS Seriously mate thank you for taking the time to reply with this, its given me quite a bit of food for thought and I'll get on dad.info asap. I'd actually never heard of that site surprisingly.

This is the thing, I guess ultimately I wouldn't know what made a good solicitor or not. What I have decided is that I'm not prepared to accept another CAO, my ex falls in the "not scared" category. And while it may last a few months or roughly a year it ultimately gets stopped by her with no consequences to her actions and she knows it. I'd tried recording conversations and interactions in the past only to be told they where of no use, we have no direct communication now at all, she was ordered to communicate via text only but decided to block me and hasn't taken it off.

Ultimately though I'm like your friend I can never give up on my kids but I do feel like I've come to the end of the road with the legal stuff if they don't give me a satisfactory resolution for the kids this time.
 
Honestly these situations make me rage so hard.

You need to be pushing for punitive actions if she denies you access or makes up allegations which are dis proven. Lets be honest, if you did this to her and stopped her seeing your kids, the police would be round in a heartbeat to bang you up.

I really do hope you get full custody.

Kids arent as stupid as they seem, is it worth sitting down with your son and a social worker away from your ex and explaining the situation to him, openly and honestly and asking if he wants you to keep fighting for him? I mean if he turns around and says yes surely that could go a huge way towards helping your case.

As much as I hate the thought of bringing your children into it, I likewise think trying to hide them from it can be more damaging than good. Does he know why you couldnt even send him a card for his birthday? Or has mum spun that into "you dont care about him"? At least if you explain to him that you were stopped from doing it in front of someone independent who can back you up...

Arg, im going to have to stop watching this thread, it will make me so angry.
 
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Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply I really appreciate it, though it is really sad to see so many people going or having gone through similar things.

@RaohNS Seriously mate thank you for taking the time to reply with this, its given me quite a bit of food for thought and I'll get on dad.info asap. I'd actually never heard of that site surprisingly.

This is the thing, I guess ultimately I wouldn't know what made a good solicitor or not. What I have decided is that I'm not prepared to accept another CAO, my ex falls in the "not scared" category. And while it may last a few months or roughly a year it ultimately gets stopped by her with no consequences to her actions and she knows it. I'd tried recording conversations and interactions in the past only to be told they where of no use, we have no direct communication now at all, she was ordered to communicate via text only but decided to block me and hasn't taken it off.

Ultimately though I'm like your friend I can never give up on my kids but I do feel like I've come to the end of the road with the legal stuff if they don't give me a satisfactory resolution for the kids this time.

Apologies, I cannot help but rant when referring to that blithering cesspit. DadTalk is a brilliant community and one that will certainly open anyones eyes to just how pernicious and common this problem actually is.

A good Solicitor in my eyes is:
- Straight John Bull (takes no messing and is very serious and up front and behaves in what some softies may perceive as a threatening manner)
- Involves you in the process and explains things
- Listens to what you want and tells you how they are going to make it happen
- Will stand up in Court (against their Oaths to the Court) if there is a tort
- Is familiar with Parental Alienation Syndrome (many Courts and "professionals" still have little to no knowledge of this - however the most respected researchers (including people such as Dr Richard Warshak) provide what I as a layman would take to be proof of it being a condition at the very least).
- Will put you before your child. Note: I had this issue with my Dad who was trying to do things that were the best for my daughter (the so called "all round best for everyone") while forgetting the most important facet of the issue that: You are the one trying to ensure that with every fibre of your being while the other person is acting in their own selfish and narcissistic ends. Think of giving a bully an equal platform to a victim, then you will make it fall into place. When Courts realize that good/great Fathers needs should be considered alongside the child we may just get there
- Will provide you evidence of what they have done previously in securing contact and what they will do IF you fall into the 50% of CAO's/CO's that are broken

I know the feeling. I respect parents who cannot give up on their kids, I get it. For me I knew it as certain as the Sun rises after seeing the things I have at Court (including: collusion between my ex and Social Workers, Her Solicitor and the Legal Adviser and the way Courts handled people making repeated threats. I had to have my ex and her partner (who ran his car at me in one instance with his own child in the car) laughing at me. To the point I walked in and they both broke down in hysterics.

I promised myself that when the Courts themselves flouted their own rules (that tincy unimportant thing called the Law) to grant impunity to my ex it would be futile. I was fighting not only my ex, the dodgy Social Workers, Legal Advisers, the morons known as Solicitors, the Judges and ultimately through the latter the Court itself. I won't lie, it started to affect my health in a worrisome way. Excessive stress, anxiety coupled with holding fury inside and keeping it away from family. I'd rather live to fight another day knowing I did all I could do. There is a victory of sorts there, the war may not be lost.

I presume you are referring to me amongst others.

Vidar needs legal counsel on a civil case against the EX, and public bodies (Inc police) on the damaging accusations to him and failure of action to protect him. This has nothing to do with the family courts at all or custody of his kids. That's a separate matter completely.

Civil cases, in regard to what I am suggesting, are a hugely complicated matter, not that expensive to progress though to where he needs to get some resolve and it's very reliant on the accuracy of the circumstances in question which we are not wholly party to. They are however very costly to the defendant which motivates action.

The reason I won't give specifics or offer more advice is simply that we only have one side of the events from @Vidar and whilst I don't doubt his struggles we have very limited insight into everything and only the emotive posting.

Possibly so.

It depends on how you are formulating your plan of attack. Its clear he has had a Section 91 applied on him by the ex. You would wish him to wage his war on multiple fronts while I think pressing this against the "Family" Courts should be his focus. Police are for Criminal, Courts being "civil". The case against his ex needs grounds, basis that is very unlikely to be given. He may get a "restraining order" (NMO). Most of this (as with other issues I've dealt in the past) are likely because he has challenged the control of his ex. Women like this feel an uncontrollable urge to force their own control onto others under what they perceive as "theirs" (these are MY kids, YOU WILL do as I SAY!) and abuse their children in the most unimaginable way.

I agree as to the 2 sides. Bitter experience tells me neither are blameless but the heap of blame is on one side a mountain, the other a mole hill.

I'll paraphrase with the most memorable quote from Richard Washaks Divorce Poison:
"Parents who alienate their children against the other Parent, not only damage their psychology - but are guilty in the corruption of their very soul"

A great pity that "Paramountcy" of the Child would not consider the immensity of the above.

You can fight the Legal System without Legal Advice, honestly all it takes is being able to read and comprehend. I've yet to be beaten by a Solicitor on fair grounds and its only the total disregard for the Law and FPR that through corrupt means as to what ultimately beat me. That is to say the Judges were not willing to implement what they are charged with doing.

I just hope @Vidar can fight and win, but remember you will hit walls and there is sometimes a time to say, you have done as much as you can do. My threshold was 5years 10months+, I've known some be fighting for over 12years. Dad Talk has some in double digits.
 


Reading posts like this makes me think we need a "womens rights" type of movement, but this time for the dads.
unfortunately I guess whilst there are plenty of dads suffering like you and the OP have, there are perhaps not enough suffering to do something about it.
Or maybe there is ?

All it takes is for someone to start it and you'll soon have others following :)
 
I never understand how woman can turn so bitter like this. This happened to someone I knew too, his ex wife stopped him seeing his daughter at Christmas.....(Guy is also genuinely a nice bloke).

Does she not care about her own child at all? all it does is harm the children.

It's pathetic...

What is wrong with people (woman).
 
Vader - Please keep us updated in this thread because i'd love to hear how you're getting on. You have my full support
 
Sorry for the lack of updates folks, I'm pretty much working 7 nights a week at the moment even if it is only netting me an extra £20 something quid after travel a time... it all helps.

Frustrating thing is nothing is really happening at the moment over the kids, my solicitors appointment was cancelled at the very last minute annoyingly after I'd been sat in the office for 20 minutes already as she'd had to go to an emergency hearing. Despite her telling me that I wouldn't get legal aid, I've phoned them up directly and they've said provisionally that with their being evidence of abuse that provisionally I do qualify for it and to tell them that I'm applying under legal aid as most of them will try to take you on privately. If my current brief tries to shaft me or refuses to even apply for me then I'll just go somewhere else whether I'm happy with their service otherwise or not.

All in all guys I'm really struggling to keep my mood positive at the moment, facebook through up one of those memory posts from 9 years ago of my little lad when he was just a few days old and I fell to pieces, was just glad my fiancee wasn't about as I really don't want her worrying about me.
 
Vidar, I can relate to some extent what your going through. It was a living nightmare when my ex tried to take access away from me seeing my son (now 9yold), changing his school, and screw me over for money which resulting in me taking her to family court last year.

Long story short, she didn't win at all, so she turned her back on him after she couldn't get her own way in court resulting me have full custody.
 
Despite her telling me that I wouldn't get legal aid, I've phoned them up directly and they've said provisionally that with their being evidence of abuse that provisionally I do qualify for it and to tell them that I'm applying under legal aid as most of them will try to take you on privately. If my current brief tries to shaft me or refuses to even apply for me then I'll just go somewhere else whether I'm happy with their service otherwise or not.

Knowing this I wouldn't feel comfortable with their services, this person should have did the background checks for you. At the very least I'd need to discuss that matter so that my mind is at ease but I'd probably go elsewhere.
 
Vidar, I can relate to some extent what your going through. It was a living nightmare when my ex tried to take access away from me seeing my son (now 9yold), changing his school, and screw me over for money which resulting in me taking her to family court last year.

Long story short, she didn't win at all, so she turned her back on him after she couldn't get her own way in court resulting me have full custody.

As it stands I honestly don't ever think the ex would ever just walk away no matter what. Not cause I think she loves the kids, at least not like your supposed to as a parent but because it seems like she's hellbent on causing me as much misery as possible and the kids are unfortunately the only thing to a hold she has over me.
 
Vidar squire, you're one tough ******* For what you've been through, I can only imagine what your mental state is. I applaud you for keeping going, many others would have just crumbled. I hope and pray you overcome this...this.....ah man I can't even say the words on here without being banned, I hope you win and that lying sod gets her Karma comeuppance! Hang tough squire. You'll do it!
 
As it stands I honestly don't ever think the ex would ever just walk away no matter what. Not cause I think she loves the kids, at least not like your supposed to as a parent but because it seems like she's hellbent on causing me as much misery as possible and the kids are unfortunately the only thing to a hold she has over me.

I had years of manipulation as I always though they would side with the mother, watching my son upset when I had to leave him, or couldn't see him was gut wrenching... She never put him first and used him only to benefit her! (like getting money out of me).

I never thought she would ever walk away but going through the courts showed her true colours and intentions...knowing that she couldn't move his school and I had majority custody approved by the court (which means no money for her) she gave him up completely....

I've never had the abuse tactic, but I've had the 'tried to get me arrested' one...
 
Mate , feel for you as I went through the same **** for 10 years .

Hard as this is to swallow here is my advice ;

I assume your paying maintenance and will continue to do so ? Reason I ask is you can’t be seen to be the villain here .
Your immediate family know your doing the right thing here with trying to make contact and be a part of there lives ? Again your doing the right thing .
Is there someone through the family ( mother in law , sister ) that can pass on gifts cards ect . Again your doing the right thing .

If you are doing the above and have loved ones to help you as a third party contact here is my advice , it harsh but will help you keep your sanity .

WALK AWAY , let them get on with it and I promise you this, Your kids will come back to you and when they do they alone can see the father you are .

This took 3 years of my life with little or no contact , my son is 21 and my daughter is 17 and both live with me and both love me to bits . They both hate there mother .

Courts are a waist of time other than maybe a contact order . Judges will always be pro mother.
 
Mate , feel for you as I went through the same **** for 10 years .

Hard as this is to swallow here is my advice ;

I assume your paying maintenance and will continue to do so ? Reason I ask is you can’t be seen to be the villain here .
Your immediate family know your doing the right thing here with trying to make contact and be a part of there lives ? Again your doing the right thing .
Is there someone through the family ( mother in law , sister ) that can pass on gifts cards ect . Again your doing the right thing .

If you are doing the above and have loved ones to help you as a third party contact here is my advice , it harsh but will help you keep your sanity .

WALK AWAY , let them get on with it and I promise you this, Your kids will come back to you and when they do they alone can see the father you are .

This took 3 years of my life with little or no contact , my son is 21 and my daughter is 17 and both live with me and both love me to bits . They both hate there mother .

Courts are a waist of time other than maybe a contact order . Judges will always be pro mother.
got to be one of the hardest decisions to make to chose to give up on literally years of your children's lives.
I love my 2 daughters and I couldn't ever imagine being refused access to see them both. My partner has always resolutely maintained that were we ever to break up she doesn't agree with using children as weapons and would never do so, but we all know how women can be following a breakup, so this always sits at the back of my mind.
 
Reading posts like this makes me think we need a "womens rights" type of movement, but this time for the dads.
unfortunately I guess whilst there are plenty of dads suffering like you and the OP have, there are perhaps not enough suffering to do something about it.
Or maybe there is ?

All it takes is for someone to start it and you'll soon have others following :)

Well I read the F4J book by Matt O'Connor and its a chuckle on every page. But the intriguing thing is you see how the media is a mouthpiece for the establishment. 3 instances spring to mind;

1) the M25 bomb threat that the press reported was F4J (LIE)
2) the plan to kidnap Leo Blair (a conversation in a pub done as a sting that would never have been carried out and was done by someone not linked iirc) (Misinformation)
3) the crane protest by forget his name but have his book too - where Police shut the road off to get public against them (despite crane in operation before)

It really is endemic, honestly. I've a friend who spent 17hrs in a cell because his ex alleges he carried her out his door after she physically assaulted him. His ex is 25st (he is about 11). I have another mate who's ex shoved his son into a set of drawers because he wanted go a different school near his dad (she wanted send him a distant school because the new bf had school on his daily route). SW completely ignored it despite him saying. Used to work with a bloke whose ex posted ocuks finest through his letterbox for years, ran him over and pinned him against a wall with a car. Police didn't want touch it.

Let me see... Read cases of Dads going over to Ireland every weekend by plane and the ex not answering door. I spoke to the partner of one guy on the phone as he was terrified of an ex who took his son straight police station after contact to report abuse.

The single worst case I ever heard was a guy who split from his ex and had new wife n daughter. She alleged sexual assault/paedo stuff. For 12m he was not allowed to be alone in his home with his daughter and every night had to stop with his parents. At the court cases ex broke down saying she made it up cus she was "scared". No action what so ever taken by Court or Police. What an amazing "Family" Court we have.

I've promised never to adhere to any Circus directions again.
 
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