Police chief 'wants drivers penalised for going 1mph over speed limit'

[theone8181]

I quoted the 10% + 2mph but he said it happened during the new speeding laws and he was in the band 1 class.
I looked this up on the AA site and 31mph is in the band 1 class with a fine!

Im waiting for this to happen, i'm sure we all know someone who sweaters blind that he/she/their dog was caught at a ridiculously low amount over the limit but they never seem to have any paperwork to prove it.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Im waiting for this to happen, i'm sure we all know someone who sweaters blind that he/she/their dog was caught at a ridiculously low amount over the limit but they never seem to have any paperwork to prove it.

I've just spread some seeds to him quoting the Police Chiefs blog.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Being caught at 31mph is impossible because even when using a fully calibrated laser gun, it's accuracy is +/-1mph. Not to mention, CPS would never run it at court.

They list 31mph as a band 1 class fine because they have to. The law states that the limit is 30mph so anything over 30mph needs to have a quoted penalty, so that theoretically, if they could catch someone for 31mph there is a listed penalty. Theoretically.

Its a bit like drink driving. The limit in law is 35microgrammes/100ml breath. This means if you blew 36, you have broken the law and you'd attract the mandatory 12month disqualification...theoretically. In reality, CPS won't run any person who blows less than 40 because of the obvious difficulties when you're dealing with extremely small amounts as low as 1microgramme/100ml of breath and equipment not being sensitive enough to detect this with 100% certainty.

I did some research into this and FOIA'd the majority of UK forces. It is possible and people have been convicted for 1mph over the speed limit. However, the numbers I had were under 10 instances in total nationally and all were around early 2014 with none between then and late 2016 when I did the requests. I think I asked for stats in the previous 5 years.

These people may have just gone guilty at court and may have not been convicted had it gone to trial but whilst it is possible, I doubt the numbers I found add up to "everyone's" mate that swear that they've been in this position.

 

[Gaygle]

I did some research into this and FOIA'd the majority of UK forces. It is possible and people have been convicted for 1mph over the speed limit. However, the numbers I had were under 10 instances in total nationally and all were around early 2014 with none between then and late 2016 when I did the requests. I think I asked for stats in the previous 5 years.

These people may have just gone guilty at court and may have not been convicted had it gone to trial but whilst it is possible, I doubt the numbers I found add up to "everyone's" mate that swear that they've been in this position.

Interesting.

Although I'm still highly sceptical and think this could easily be due to recording errors for a multitude of reasons. The FOI requests are only as good as the data inputted and without looking into each of those 10 cases individually, you'll never know. The theory of recording errors is lent even more credibility in that only 10 people nationwide were dealt with for apparently doing 31mph out of the 1.97 million who were caught speeding. The reason I'm still sceptical is A) it's likely to not be in the public interest to prosecute and B) most CTO's would instantly NFA this due to the plethora of reasons, including instrument accuracy and likelihood of obtaining a conviction.

 

[NickK]

Yes you can override it by flooring the pedal though but anything but flat to the floor and it won't go any faster.

On my cc stalk - one is cc and the other is limit, so I can set an upper limit. Useful for motorway roadworks but playing with memorising the speed is just as distracting as watching the speedo.

Perhaps when autonomous vehicles replace cars the police will loose their source of income..

 

[Burnsy2023]

Interesting.

Although I'm still highly sceptical and think this could easily be due to recording errors for a multitude of reasons. The FOI requests are only as good as the data inputted and without looking into each of those 10 cases individually, you'll never know. The theory of recording errors is lent even more credibility in that only 10 people nationwide were dealt with for apparently doing 31mph out of the 1.97 million who were caught speeding. The reason I'm still sceptical is A) it's likely to not be in the public interest to prosecute and B) most CTO's would instantly NFA this due to the plethora of reasons, including instrument accuracy and likelihood of obtaining a conviction.

Ahh, so one of the other questions I asked was about the force policy and adherence to the ACPO Speed Enforcement Policy Guidelines 2011. Most forces, including my own have a central ticket office where any ticket below the prosecution threshold is automatically not taken forward. Not all forces have this set up though and don't always have this review. For example there are forces where officers can raise a postal requisition for speeding without the policy being applied. Whilst I agree data quality could be a reason for some or all of these stats, some smaller forces have policies where this could conceivably happen in real life (or at least they did in 2016). Like I said earlier, if they go guilty at the first opportunity, then perhaps the gaps in evidence wouldn't come to light.

It was quite interesting to see the wild differences in how forces nationally dealt with this, I expected it to be a lot more unified.

 

[Gaygle]

Quite possibly and not inconceivable, although you'd have to seriously fail the attitude test to be issued with a PR for 31 in 30mph . Like you said though, unless all of those 10 people are on OcUK Motors forum or are associates of, I think the whole "I got done for doing 31 in a 30" is able to safely be considered BS!

 

[Burnsy2023]

Quite possibly and not inconceivable, although you'd have to seriously fail the attitude test to be issued with a PR for 31 in 30mph .

It's traffic, don't RPU officers have their discretion surgically removed when joining the team?

 

[kindai]

Ahh, so one of the other questions I asked was about the force policy and adherence to the ACPO Speed Enforcement Policy Guidelines 2011. Most forces, including my own have a central ticket office where any ticket below the prosecution threshold is automatically not taken forward. Not all forces have this set up though and don't always have this review. For example there are forces where officers can raise a postal requisition for speeding without the policy being applied. Whilst I agree data quality could be a reason for some or all of these stats, some smaller forces have policies where this could conceivably happen in real life (or at least they did in 2016). Like I said earlier, if they go guilty at the first opportunity, then perhaps the gaps in evidence wouldn't come to light.

It was quite interesting to see the wild differences in how forces nationally dealt with this, I expected it to be a lot more unified.

So where are we safest to.... be a bit heavy footed, and wheres the most risky place ?

 

[Mal X]

right out in the countryside miles from anywhere is safest and most risky as you're about to enter a village where you see the 1st sign that says 30 mph............because around the next blind corner is your greatest risk, it makes me shiver just to think about it.

generally nowhere is safe around here, but you never see them in a strait stretch of road with a great view, or anywhere where the roads are narrow country lanes.....therefore preventing them parking. In Southampton you're screwed .............cameras everywhere

 

[Nasher]

Find a nice quiet rural road on a weekend or nice evening. Remove number plates, go for a blast. Not care about cameras

 

[Orionaut]

Is there any safeguard built into hand held speed guns that disables it/makes taking a reading impossible if the operator is walking towards the traffic?

 

[skyripper]

Is there any safeguard built into hand held speed guns that disables it/makes taking a reading impossible if the operator is walking towards the traffic?

The assumption being that if there isn't, and you are clocked at exactly 30mph by a copper walking (or waving his arm) quicker than 1mph you'll get a reading of 31mph and therefore a ticket? That's some good blue sky thinking right there.

If thats so, you could have a rogue police force using Usain Bolt to catch drivers doing a massive 27mph over the limit.. instant bans for everyone!
(linky)

Reminds me of an colleague who had an Exige. He got stopped but not ticketted because the cops failed to get a steady reading from his car. They like to point the laser at the number plate as its generally flat and gives a good reflection. Because his car was so low, and his plate mounted real low on the car, the handheld gun kept hitting the road. They had a good old chat and nose about the car.