Time to ‘rethink school’?

[johnny6]

I got into an interesting ‘discussion’ with my sister this week about schools and we had very different ideas about school and it’s current set up (hours, lessons etc). Both of us have children though hers are now coming to an age where they are more independent and so she doesn’t need to utilise after school clubs or work part time to make sure she is about for them from 15:00 when the school day finishes.

My view is that with the right structure and forward planning we should be looking to extend the school day for all children. Currently my son’s school hours are 08:45 to 15:00 (which we then supplement at our own cost with after school club from 15:00 to 18:00 Monday to Friday) I’d like to see standard school hours extended to 08:45 to 17:15.

I’d like to see this extra time used for more practical application of subjects such as maths, sciences and art. Making these subjects more interactive and allow time for children to explore via doing. Plus build in more time for PE and sports. I’d also like to see this result in the complete removal of home work.

My view on homework (with the exception of reading and art) is that you are asking parents to help educate their children without knowing the skill or academic level of those parents. I’ve lost count of the number of parents (low and highly educated alike) who have said to me in conversation that they didn’t know the answers because it has changed since they went to school so they googled/YouTubed it. The academic level of the parents is simply not factored in with homework.

It would also reduce the cost burden on parents who currently use after school clubs and improve availability/flexibility of the parent workforce.

My sisters view is that kids need time to be kids and extended school hours goes against that. What she doesn’t consider however is the time taken to complete homework or the benefits to restructured lessons.

Don’t get me wrong I can see challenges with this change both financial (funding of schools) and teacher availability to cover more hours. You would need more teachers/teaching assistants for starters. Plus there would need to be a rethink about breaks and feeding the children over an extended day to keep them active. I’m not one of those people who claims teachers have ‘an easy ride’ with all the holiday and what not. In reality we should be supporting teachers even more in my view.

We would also need to rethink transport as you would be shifting the current school traffic from 15:00 to a time closer to rush hour.

I can also see that people without children might be against more of their taxes going towards funding schools.

Thoughts? Am I completely wrong and am I suggesting something which wouldn’t work in a month of Sunday’s. Are there benefits to an extended school day and do these outweigh the negatives?

 

[arctine]

Education should not be built around convenience of the parent. Your sister is right, 08:45 - 17:15 is a ridiculously long day for a child.

 

[ikillbears]

Education should not be built around convenience of the parent. Your sister is right, 08:45 - 17:15 is a ridiculously long day for a child.

school for me was 8:30 - 18:00

 

[arctine]

school for me was 8:30 - 18:00

Well that's a lovely anecdote.

 

[TNGL]

I think kids need time to be kids, though if they were born into such a regime (as opposed to shifting to it when they are halfway through their education) they wouldn't know any better.

Scrap the half terms.

 

[Kronos]

Too short a day and far to many holidays.

 

[Randomface74]

Yes I agree we need something that makes traffic 'like half-term' all the time.

Yes I agree there's too much homework, depends on the school afaik, but when I was at school I'd leave school at 4:30, get home, eat, shower but 5:30, do homework until about 9pm. I did that every day for about 10 years. Complete nightmare. Annoying thing is none of that benefits me in my career, which was basically self-taught.

 

[deFiniLoGy]

It's been well established that chronic stress and adversity impairs fundamental development of the brain, so increasing the school hours can do no good but harm to youngsters.

And how many hours of school did we have to do is simply irrelevant in the current society, it's their childhood, not ours.

I, however, agree that currently education is equipping children to excel at exams, but not excel at life, and that is what needed to be worked on.

 

[johnny6]

Education should not be built around convenience of the parent. Your sister is right, 08:45 - 17:15 is a ridiculously long day for a child.

Convenience to the parent is an interesting side benefit not the main reason for the change.

To counter your arguement my son (who is 5) is at school Monday to Friday from 08:45 to 17:30/17:45 every week as both my wife and I work full time. He also gets homework every week which takes between 3-5 hours a week and you know what, he does not struggle with the hours. However we have quite a ridged bed time schedule which means he gets 12-13 hours during the week. This is flexed a little at the weekend and a bit more during the holidays. By comparison I hear my next door neighbours child up at all hours and every morning she looks really tired. Our son has also been doing long hours since about the age of 3, initially going to nursery from 08:45 to 05:15 when my wife went back to work.

Based on my experience (admittedly from a sample of under 10 children friends/family/neighbours etc) long hours aren’t a problem it’s a lack of discipline with regards to sleep patterns.

 

[Thekwango]

Jesus, you must hate your children.

 

[johnny6]

It's been well established that chronic stress and adversity impairs fundamental development of the brain, so increasing the school hours can do no good but harm to youngsters.

And how many hours of school did we have to do is simply irrelevant in the current society, it's their childhood, not ours.

I, however, agree that currently education is equipping children to excel at exams, but not excel at life, and that is what needed to be worked on.

Interesting and I agree if the extra hours where used to do more of the same under the current system of preparing to pass exams. What I’m suggesting however is a fundamental rethink of the number of hours and how we utilise all the hours. Would children experience chronic stress if more time was spent in art, practical experiences and physical education?

 

[Outcast]

Education should not be built around convenience of the parent. Your sister is right, 08:45 - 17:15 is a ridiculously long day for a child.

In the early 70's this is EXACTLY what was in place FOR the working parents !

Comprehensive schools times iirc were 08:00 to 16:30 but we had a very long lunch break.
By the time we had walked home (or rode pushbikes) at least one parent usually was home. In our case we were "Latchkey kids" as both our parents worked long hours.

 

[Glaucus]

absolutely, however shouldn't be extending school day. Plenty of research showing teenagers struggle to operate that early in the morning, plus how much they can actually learn in a day.
core subjects should stay, but practical should replace the optional classes for those who want. subjects and structure was arbitrary chosen several hundred years ago and has hardly changed since. Yet we know far more now. the impact on the economy after a few decades would be huge. but like most things which are poor requires a large cash injection upfront which is why meaningful change never really comes.

 

[deFiniLoGy]

In the early 70's...

Exactly.

It is 2018 now.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Who is going to teach these extra hours and how are we going to pay them?

 

[deFiniLoGy]

Interesting and I agree if the extra hours where used to do more of the same under the current system of preparing to pass exams. What I’m suggesting however is a fundamental rethink of the number of hours and how we utilise all the hours. Would children experience chronic stress if more time was spent in art, practical experiences and physical education?

It depends on the quality of the education itself during those hours doesn't it, and then multiple factors needed to be considered like the preferences of individual child etc.

If extending the hour at school really meant they're spending more time in things they feel interested in, then no that would not translate to chronic stress.

However, is the current quality of teachers capable of delivering that level of developmental guidance? I highly doubt so.

Hence, IMO, keeping school day short and let children spend more time to do things they want, will do more good then keeping them at school until 1730 learning things they do not like at all.

 

[Dis86]

Another parent who wants school to be a child minding service...

 

[LabR@t]

10-2 7 days a week, 5 weeks holiday a year to have when you want

 

[johnny6]

Jesus, you must hate your children.

Quite the opposite actually. My son going to after school club has made him very sociable as he gets to interact with children of different ages and from different classes. The after school club also concentrates on art and practical activities. He is actually quite disappointed when he can’t go.

Yesterday we went to the forest to hunt for a Gruffalo. Today we are spending most of the day on homework, which my suggestion gets rid giving us more kid time at home.

Lots of sleep results in a happy child, luckily for us he has slept through the night from 6 weeks old. He is a very happy child who only gets grumpy when he is ill.

 

[Haggisman]

Anecdotal "evidence", but our 6 year old is knackered when I pick him up at 4.30 and I doubt he'd be able to concentrate on much by that point, contrary to the above poster's beliefs, he isn't "up at all hours", but is in bed by 7-7.30pm.

Perhaps for older children (e.g. secondary school) a longer school day would be appropriate, but I think it would be counterproductive for primary age kids

Out of interest, when are these kids supposed to eat dinner, wind down, and spend time with mum & dad when they get home at ~5.30-6pm and are supposed to be in bed by 7 to get enough sleep?