Time to ‘rethink school’?

[johnny6]

It will come at a cost though. Financial and on the teaching staff, more time teaching means less time planning. In reality it means more time planning outside of school. So lots people get cheap childcare but education will suffer.

You are suggesting less parental engagement in the child’s education as even more of it is being done in school and even less of it at home.

All the clubs at our school are free and run by teachers voluntarily. Up the teachers hours significantly and you won’t see as much of that as they won’t have the time or energy.

I suppose I am suggesting less parental engagement in education in some ways. Parental teaching comes with their own biases and its effectiveness is based on their own experience of school. Parent had a bad experience of school you can bet that will be passed on to the child.

What parents can and should do however is foster an inquisitive nature in their child, respect for learning, respect for teachers and a desire and a drive to gain knowledge. They can foster a positive attitude within their child and encourage new experiences.

I agree that none of this comes for free and the numbers would need to be looked at, but what is the alternative? We keep producing mediocre young adults who are trained to pass exams, which leads them into low skilled jobs, jobs which we keep being told will disappear through automation (if you believe that).

 

[dowie]

Making lessons more interesting doesn't necessitate longer hours, but it might. A science lesson with a greater practical element might take longer as there might still need to be an element of fact based learning required. Likewise increasing PE, art, drama, food tech etc etc etc would require more hours OR the removal of something else.

They don't have to, science lessons are generally practical already (perhaps your kid's school isn't so great, perhaps you could do some research and find a more suitable one). I had plenty of PE at school... we also spent time outside of school hours competing in sport against other schools... that is something that tends to require longer hours and is already catered for. Food tech, granted, we never did anything there - then again I don't think that matters much, in terms or priorities it seems rather low IMO.

We had drama lessons taught by the English dept, there were school plays etc..

I'm not sure why you are against this concept as a whole, and are rather fixating on one small... very small part of which that is increasing school hours slightly. This is about doing multiple things to improve the whole.

Because there isn't anything to suggest that longer hours are worthwhile, the most successful school systems currently in operation have similar or shorter hours than our own. Wanting longer hours for the sake of it seems misguided at best... wanting a particular school to invest a bit more time into sport etc.. or to make lessons more interesting is another matter and might well be school specific - I'd wager that there are plenty of grammar schools, independent schools some good comprehensive schools and perhaps some academies that would cover most of what you've mentioned rather well already and without needing to extend the school day to overlap with adult office hours.

 

[RDM]

I suppose I am suggesting less parental engagement in education in some ways. Parental teaching comes with their own biases and its effectiveness is based on their own experience of school. Parent had a bad experience of school you can bet that will be passed on to the child.

What parents can and should do however is foster an inquisitive nature in their child, respect for learning, respect for teachers and a desire and a drive to gain knowledge. They can foster a positive attitude within their child and encourage new experiences.

I agree that none of this comes for free and the numbers would need to be looked at, but what is the alternative? We keep producing mediocre young adults who are trained to pass exams, which leads them into low skilled jobs, jobs which we keep being told will disappear through automation (if you believe that).

None of which is going to be solved by kids having 2 hours extra teaching a day.

 

[skaif]

To be honest I don't think anyone is really qualified to make changes to the education system unless they have lived and breathed it themselves.

The reason why we have so many pointless changes is due to numptys in charge who haven't taught a day in a school and look at it through others perceptions, making knee jerk decisions in order to tick some random boxes.

Also LOL to less parental engagement! Seriously? I can spot a kid who's parents aren't interested in their education a mile off. In my experience the better kids are the ones who have equal input from parents. Ultimately a teacher can only do so much, the rest has to come from the child themselves and that includes support from parents.

 

[Dan103]

Long post hence spoiler short answer no for me. Have not read replies.

Spoiler: Post

OP - In my opinion I dont think extending school hours would aid learning especially in a primary school environment. Having a wife as a primary school teacher i can say that the level of practical work depends on the school and there approach to teaching the curriculum. Having been in her school to help set up her class in the summer i can say they do plenty at her school with photos, art etc on the walls and going on trips to try new experiences and learn about other cultures.

I would like to see homework removed from a teachers point of view as marking 35 kids books maths english science and any other topic covered that day may stop her marking until half 8 / 9pm each night and then planning all of it on the weekend for the following week. However i think it should play a role in a child's school time as it lends to independent learning. Parents should be involved in helping educate their child it shouldn't just be a drop off and put all the pressure on the school to provide you with a A* (Was letters when i was at school think their numbers now?) child when you pick them up at the end of the day. Methods might have changed but is it really that different. I might do say multiplication different to how they are taught now but it wouldn't take me that long to get my head round it.

Funding would need to significantly increase. They have cut teaching assistants right back recently and her school have had to let a couple go as they simply cant afford to employ them. I dont think there would be a big struggle to find teachers though should you employ 2 over a school day at their current salary level. My wifes first school had over 100 applications for 3 positions available.

By extending the day yes more breaks would be needed as suggested but i would question how much extra teaching will be accomplished. The cost may be cut to the parent for after school club but where would the extra money be sought for the extra meal / food for the extended day?

I agree with supporting teachers more. Its the admin and size of the curriculum that need addressing with goalposts constantly moving and testing bigger than ever. (Not aimed at yourself) But dealing with parents is also a tricky area with teachers afraid to say anything with fear of a complaint.

With regard to secondary schools i think this is where is much more room for restructure of days lessons etc and where slightly more investment is required. You can leave primary school having done well in SATS and then perform drastically different in the exams that count at secondary school. Im not knocking primary schools as they provide the foundation but having had friends of different levels of intelligence , results can be the same across those levels come the end of your A levels.

Then again i dont work in education or like children ha

I would be interested to see the results of some schools that could try this setup for say a term before I could be convinced it would be a major benefit that should be implemented across the board.

 

[Dis86]

To be honest I don't think anyone is really qualified to make changes to the education system unless they have lived and breathed it themselves.

The reason why we have so many pointless changes is due to numptys in charge who haven't taught a day in a school and look at it through others perceptions, making knee jerk decisions in order to tick some random boxes.

Also LOL to less parental engagement! Seriously? I can spot a kid who's parents aren't interested in their education a mile off. In my experience the better kids are the ones who have equal input from parents. Ultimately a teacher can only do so much, the rest has to come from the child themselves and that includes support from parents.

Like I said earlier on, sounds like another parent who wants to pass the responsibility for raising their kids on to the school.

 

[johnny6]

Like I said earlier on, sounds like another parent who wants to pass the responsibility for raising their kids on to the school.

Wheres that rolleyes when you need it.

Yep that’s exactly it. Well done that man. It’s not at all related to personal experience and the current benefit I see in my son from having a longer day at all.

Also last time I checked raising a child is a long more than just going to school.

 

[skaif]

I think people need to understand just how much teachers do.

To give you an example, my typical day looks like this.
In at 730 - an hour before school starts to double check lessons for the day, deal with any admin work sort out rooms plan aroind the multitude of activities happening each and every day etc. Then we start:
830 briefing
845 form time
905 lesson 1
1005 lesson 2
1105 break duty
1120 lesson 3
1220 lunch duty
1320 form time
1330 lesson 4
1430 lesson 5
1530 extra tutorial / booster / catch up sessions
1630 mark any work you can be bothered to mark after a full day make sure you're aware of any other admin work you may have to do - coaching staff, planning lessons, making resources, leading network meets, attending cpd sessions, sorting trips, planning ahead for any upcoming leave, attend meetings etc
Bearing in mind i actually get it quite easy as the standards are incredibly high here and the staff are trusted. I have been in schools where staff have had to provide evidence of lesson plans for every single lesson they teach. It can get ridiculous.

Now yes you don't have to have a duty every day but that there is a typical day whereby you can see that teachers basically don't have the time. Now if you consider that in my school a teacher has just 3 free lessons a week, you can see how the pressure can get a lot very quickly.

Now tell me where these extra lessons fit in?