Some Advice (driving offence after car was sold)

Apache14

Apache14

Apache14

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Hi all,


I'm looking for some advice while trying to find a solicitor that will look into this for me.


I sold my old Golf on the 03/07/2017 via Facebook sale, the cash sale went as normal got a hand written receipt dated and singed by the buyer and the V5 all sorted. Photocopied the V5 and sent off by post the same day (the online site was down for maintenance). The sale was to an auto dealer

Fast forward a few weeks I get a letter from the local (Norfolk) ticketing office saying the car was caught being driven without care / attention on the 09/07/2017. I filled in the section stating that I did not own the car at that time and sent them a copy of the receipt and V5. I also got the DVLA to confirm that the car changed owners as of the 3rd (all was in order there).

Another week or two passes and I get another letter asking for more details, this time I phone the ticketing office that this sale was organised over Facebook and other than the profile of the guy I had no more contact information. I also tried to contact the buyer but as soon as I mentioned getting their home address they blocked me. The police understood I had no more information and that was that .....

Until yesterday when I get a court summons to appear in court for both

* Driving without due care and attention (overtaking on a solid white like / dash cam recording)
* Refusing to supply information about the driver of a vehicle

The real kicker here is that in the police statement on the same form it says that I sold the car before the offence happened and that I provided copies of all documents relating to the sale of the car and the new address provided. It also outlines the phone conversations I had. And it's all 100% in line with what happened.

So now I seem to have been charged for 2 pretty bad offences for a car I did not own ....


Probably a long shot but anyone ever been in a situation like this before ?


Cheers in advice for any advice ... or kind words ?
 
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Get legal advice, I can't believe you will get done for this but be careful.

Also can you prove you were somewhere else,?
 
Slam62 said:
Get legal advice, I can't believe you will get done for this but be careful.

Also can you prove you were somewhere else,?
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I have some posts of me on Facebook out with the family approximately 30min either side of the offence. Bar that only witnesses.

I mean it's to me it's insanity that that can both acknowledge that I didn't own the car and try and charge me at the same time
 
Would you be able to get a free 30 mins to talk through with a Solicitor? I can't believe anything will happen with this if you simply turn up and state fact, but it does seem a really odd and potentially daft legal situation
 
rodenal said:
Would you be able to get a free 30 mins to talk through with a Solicitor? I can't believe anything will happen with this if you simply turn up and state fact, but it does seem a really odd and potentially daft legal situation
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I'm waiting for a call back from the only local place that will deal with traffic offences :/ if I don't here anything tomorrow I'll have to look further away. I don't even mind paying to some extent.
 
I had a similar problem with a motor bike I scrapped, I did not cancel the insurance as I wasn't going to get a refund, so it was a waste of my time, but the bike was clearly put back on the road after I scrapped it, some 6 months or so later it hit a car in traffic and rode off, of course my name came up on the insurance database and so they proceeded to chase me for damages :(

I kept explaining this bike wasn't mine to insurance companies but they were having none of it, I had no proof of sale and had long binned the DVLA letter saying I had got rid of it, Insurance kept asking me to prove I sold it, I kept asking them to prove I owned it, bit cyclical, but the burden of proof was on me as I was paying the insurance. :D in the end I had to pay DVLA to send me proof that I sold it on to trade.

That was all I needed, it got cleared up, amusingly at the time of incident the bike was back on my street 30 houses down the road, so I could at least tell them where the actual owners were :D

Might be a bit more tricky for you as the dates are so close and of course you could be faking it after having an incident and just back dating forms etc.
 
I cant imagine, with the amount of evidence you have given already, and a decent timeline from the police and everything, that this will go against you. No Sherrif in their right mind would pass a conviction against you. That said, I would have thought no PF in their right mind would let it get as far as an actual court date either.

sandys said:
Might be a bit more tricky for you as the dates are so close and of course you could be faking it after having an incident and just back dating forms etc.
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Not really if DVLA received the change of keeper notification before the date of offence. Which is likely as it was sent off on the date of sale.

Surely DVLA will have notice of the purchaser of the vehicle? Do you not still need to provide contact details even if you are selling to a trader?
 
Yes if you can prove it was all done before, sounds like you can, it shouldn't be a problem beyond admin, you are probably going to have to use a solicitor though which'll be a pain.
 
Yeah but its the driver not the owner they want,

But hopefully they would chase the owner to get the driver.
 
xs2man said:
Do you not still need to provide contact details even if you are selling to a trader?
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I am pretty sure that's the main issue here, as it was sold to a motor dealer that the police cant seem to get in contact with. Tho in reality I gave the police all information on the dealer and the person who contacted me over Facebook.

I don't know if it was an automatic thing (as the court paperwork was allocated at 00:01 some day in September) or the police are just hoping I don't turn up :/
 
Slam62 said:
Yeah but its the driver not the owner they want,

But hopefully they would chase the owner to get the driver.
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Indeed but they have put me down for "refusing to provide information relating to the driver" this is just simply untrue (even in their own statement) I provided name and address of the new keeper / company (not that they also couldn't get this from DVLA)
 
why is the facebook aspect of sale relevant - you still met the guy face to face and filled in v5 with business name, address, VAT number ? and saw some ID ?
 
jpaul said:
why is the facebook aspect of sale relevant - you still met the guy face to face and filled in v5 with business name, address, VAT number ? and saw some ID ?
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Police asked about how the sale was set up (I guess to evidence if I was lying about the sale ?). I did ask for ID for some verification (didn't ask for VAT info). They seemed pretty genuine (and still sell cars on Facebook to this day, tho they have blocked me)
 
Are you sure you are not being summoned as a witness - to support the prosecution case?
They will ask you when and how you sold the car.

You haven't received a NIP or been charged have you?
 
Should be a simple enough defense to handle on your own, let alone any qualified solicitor.

Where are you based?
 
snapdragon69 said:
Are you sure you are not being summoned as a witness - to support the prosecution case?
They will ask you when and how you sold the car.

You haven't received a NIP or been charged have you?
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Yeah IV definitely been charged, last word being fallback to defend (my name) for providing insufficient information

kindai said:
Should be a simple enough defense to handle on your own, let alone any qualified solicitor.

Where are you based?
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Norfolk (Norwich way)
 
Depends how confident you are handing yourself in court.

Ultimately they'll be trying to bring a Section 172 offense I assume (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/172)

There is a statutory defense, which is 172-4

"A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was."

Ultimately, if you have everything detailed as you say you do and just present that evidence to the court you'll be in the clear.
 
This happened to me before. I got a solid alibi from work by printing off my time sheets and log in/out times from our office, which had a swipe card. It didn't go any further once I provided that.
 
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