Planning Permission before Purchase experience?

stuman

stuman

stuman

Associate
Joined
27 Aug 2003
Posts
2,328
Hi All.

So to keep it short, there is a plot of land available with an old industrial building that is looking perfect for a house conversion.

However, it's currently only got planning permitted for a "holiday Letting". Looking over the planning application there is only a very small section of the planning consent that shows a benefit to not being a permanent residence.

Now, reading a few bits of information, a third party can apply for planning permission with the permission of the current owners etc.

This for me poses a couple of questions, whats to stop them from having you do the leg (and wallet) work for the planning permission and then pulling the sale and developing the site themselves? Would a solicitor be willing to draft a contract to force a sale if planning is granted? or do you literally have to purchase the property and then hope and pray that you can negotiate permission to build a permanent dwelling?

I know the obvious answer is go and talk to professionals, but at this stage, it is purely ideas and feasibility checking.
 
You can have a conditional contract where you would exchange contracts but only complete if planning permission was granted, that's not a problem .
 
Yeah, conditional offers are very common with development opportunities, usually there is some kind of time limit on getting the permission but set by you.
My first question would be why has it only got holiday let permission, as a full residential consent is more valuable...
 
the_r_sole said:
Yeah, conditional offers are very common with development opportunities, usually there is some kind of time limit on getting the permission but set by you.
My first question would be why has it only got holiday let permission, as a full residential consent is more valuable...
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like the land can only be used for commercial - been some issues related to that by land near me that is actually owned by the council - they've been coming up with all kinds of creative ways to try and get around whatever the block is.
 
Rroff said:
Sounds to me like the land can only be used for commercial - been some issues related to that by land near me that is actually owned by the council - they've been coming up with all kinds of creative ways to try and get around whatever the block is.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there will be a reason they haven't been able to get consent, the op needs to know that before going any further with it, a conditional offer won't be taken if the seller knows yheylll never get a resi consent.
 
I believe the planning is for holiday only because it’s in a rural location.

However, I can’t see any planning applications that have been put in for a permenant dwelling, just the holiday letting. I guess this could just be from advice from the council? If so, it would have been a few years ago that consultation, so would it be worth having a sit down with an advisor to see if it’s possible?
 
It's always worth talking through with someone that knows you're local area and the vendor.
Could be they got the permission for something they were going to build and didn't need a full consent or could be that there is a restriction on it..
If the site has been for sale with this consent for a number of years I would guess you're not the first to have this idea!
 
Indeed. I was thinking the same, however, I don’t think it’s been for sale that long, well 8 months..

Who would I talk to? Would planning office consult in a more casual manner about potential issues before sinking money for the full application? Even for a small fee?
 
Do pre-application advice.

Council's just don't allow new dwellings in the countryside, but they do need to support the rural economy.

There is also permitted development for change of use that might be worth looking into.
 
You could look at the permission they have and see who the officer was for it, phone them up with the planning reference and have a chat (doesnt always work)
You could do a more formal preapp (usually a fee for that with most local authorities in England) - that would identify any local plan issues with the site for realitively minimal outgoings
Or, look at the application drawings and see who the architect was for that, pick up the phone and ask them about it
 
All great pointers.

I've also stumbled upon development guidelines issued by the government that has useful wording.

  • where the development would re-use redundant or disused buildings and lead to an enhancement to the immediate setting
Very much does.
  • the exceptional quality or innovative nature of the design of the dwelling
Innovative yes and I'm a bit of a geek for beautiful design and manufacture so yes, almost a prerequisite.

Such a design should:

  • be truly outstanding or innovative, helping to raise standards of design more generally in rural areas
Not sure on truly outstanding, but innovative probably and stands a good chance of the former.
  • reflect the highest standards in architecture
It wouldn't be an everyday build so a certain level of architectural prowess would be needed.
  • significantly enhance its immediate setting
Unsure of significantly, but the site is scrub and fenced with industrial chainlink fence...
  • be sensitive to the defining characteristics of the local area
I have ideas on how to incorporate this as well.

Will guidelines like this actually help a case or is it more along the lines of if the planning officer likes the idea or not?


This planning stuff is quite a minefield!
 
NPPF Paragraph 55 homes (which you've found) built in the greenbelt are extremely hard to get. You're looking at 1-off designs that are truly spectacular and add to the state of the art in house building and architecture.

Have a look at http://www.hawkesarchitecture.co.uk/para-55 for some examples of houses that have qualified in the past. That architecture practice is who you want to use if you're going down that route as well, but be prepared to have deep pockets! :)
 
stuman said:
Indeed. I was thinking the same, however, I don’t think it’s been for sale that long, well 8 months..

Who would I talk to? Would planning office consult in a more casual manner about potential issues before sinking money for the full application? Even for a small fee?
Click to expand...

When we did our new build we found out who the planning officer was and spoke to him informally, he was a really nice guy and really laid out what we probably could and couldn't get away with. I'm sure they're not all like that but well worth a try.
 
York said:
NPPF Paragraph 55 homes (which you've found) built in the greenbelt are extremely hard to get. You're looking at 1-off designs that are truly spectacular and add to the state of the art in house building and architecture.

Have a look at http://www.hawkesarchitecture.co.uk/para-55 for some examples of houses that have qualified in the past. That architecture practice is who you want to use if you're going down that route as well, but be prepared to have deep pockets! :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links. I've seen some of those projects before, and whilst not on the scale of those houses, the design (in my mind) elements are apparent. I've not even started to look at the cost of an architect? Obviously they are worth their weight, but how much do they weigh? 5k? 20k?...More?!
 
For a large impressive house I'd probably guestimate something like 5-10% of final build cost in architects fees, and actually something in the 30-60k range is probably not outside of the range you'd be looking at.

A bog standard house is cheaper and probably more like 5-10k. But again these are all finger in the air estimations and it also depends what you're getting the architects to do - are they just producing the plans? Do they need to do all of the site/topological surveys? Are they taking it through full planning for you (which may also involve a planning consultant)? Are they taking it through full building regs approval after planning and producing full building regs drawings? Are they project managing the final build?

Lots of different options, and the more they do the bigger the cost :)
 
Sure, I was going add in, obviously based on how much work they do and the size / timescale / complexity.

Exciting prospect, just hope we can put it all together and get it signed off :)
 
Tbh if you're going down the para 55 route be prepared for some serious consultant fees and a huge amount of time...
You're likely going to need a planning consultant involved and an architect firm who are experienced in delivering this type of project.
Your build costs will be significant to achieve the standard required for that type of project - and it's probably only worth doing on an exceptional plot to get the value back.
Do not volunteer that justification for a house when discussing with the planning department, look up how many of those apps have actually been approved, it's not an easy route
 
Yeah, the more I look at ‘exceptional’ the more I see £. Does it apply to all of the prerequisites or in a measure of all? As some would not be exceptional, but others (innovation) could be quite exceptional?
 
Last edited:
Everything about it has to be exceptional, you couldn't justify something that looked bad but was really innovative, it's a massive design challenge for an architect, you'd not have the same input into the design as you traditionally would, and it really comes down to the site more than anything tbh
Then you've got to pay for it... You're probably looking at 50k or something for fees for a very difficult to achieve permission so be prepared for a situation where you might lose 50k on someone else's land...
 
Exactly. Money talks. What is the judge on exceptionality? Is it the building method? The innovative design and construction process? Or just the 12 bedrooms and swimming pools?

Obviously new building processes cost money, but surely to be an innovator is worth its weight to both the developer as well as the developee and the longer term ‘building methods’ as they provide new ideas and processes to the general market. Is there a test case or document that references the requirements, as I am yet to find one!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom