That just makes me cringe - £1000 rent a month.....I feel for you. I'm overpaying my mortgage at £800 a month (base payment is £400) on a 4 bedroom detached house.
2018: What's considered a decent wage within reason?
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That just makes me cringe - £1000 rent a month.....I feel for you. I'm overpaying my mortgage at £800 a month (base payment is £400) on a 4 bedroom detached house.
Wow. My mortgage for a 1bed flat is £1250.
I think I forget how much more expensive London is compared to other places.
Petrol, car tax, food for both of us (which I've already looked at, buying bulk more etc)
23k in the Midlands got me a deposit on a one bedroom house after some years of saving. 23k in London would see you on the streets.
The difference between London and the rest of the UK is staggering, it's like a country within a country. In the town where I live, enormous numbers of people take the train to work in London, it's cheaper than living there. People buy a cheap house, catch the train and earn 100k just washing the pots (this is a massive over-exaggeration but you see my point
). Then they buy a second house etc.
Of course, it works both ways. My old man worked here all his life in Leicester/Northampton then retired a short distance to Mansfield where everything costs even less than here. A 150K house in the south Leicestershire countryside is 100k in Mansfield. I imagine up further north it gets cheaper and cheaper.
The difference between London and the rest of the UK is staggering, it's like a country within a country. In the town where I live, enormous numbers of people take the train to work in London, it's cheaper than living there. People buy a cheap house, catch the train and earn 100k just washing the pots (this is a massive over-exaggeration but you see my point
). Then they buy a second house etc.Of course, it works both ways. My old man worked here all his life in Leicester/Northampton then retired a short distance to Mansfield where everything costs even less than here. A 150K house in the south Leicestershire countryside is 100k in Mansfield. I imagine up further north it gets cheaper and cheaper.
The flat beneath us has just gone up for £2000/month. Two bedrooms, zone 3. Yeah.
Can get 5 bedrooms in certain areas near me for that (newish houses too, not ropey properties). Decent 3-bed detached places start at about £160k.
You pay a MASSIVE overhead to me for no truly discernible benefit. I get the London thing being one of the worlds 3-4 super cites, but really people are oblivious to the crap being taken out of them for living even near it with MILLIONS like them, but then I am not a city lover (in terms of living in one) so that probably forms my view most, but I would not move there for all the money in Dudley.
110% what I'm aiming for. Although I'm financially more than ready, I know that I'm not psychologically ready yet. There's still mountains in the distance I want to climb - professionally speaking.
I earn a reasonable amount especially given that I live up here in the desolate North but like you associate with some very wealthy people, I'm talking bank balances in the tens and hundreds of millions. Work based for me, not really social however. You're right when you say they have an odd dissociation however some go the opposite way. I'm currently working for a gentleman who is a billionaire. He attends every single meeting with me. Scrutinises every single document, drawing and report I produce on his behalf (I have no problem with that and it's actually quite refreshing) but...cuts costs at every opportunity, quite often going for lower quality options that represent very poor value for money. I've actually come across this sort of thing on a few occasions and find it really odd.
As for frivolous...£2k per square metre for bathroom tiles in the workshop basement. Niiiice. I did like his climate controlled subterranean garage with car lift and a very...interesting (to be read as not entirely legal) security system though.
A curious thing I have found is the insanely wealthy tend to be quite nice people. Those with a 'bit' of money however tend to be quite unpleasant.
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34k here in a low average wage part of Scotland, mortgage is about 90k but is on quite a decent house living in an "upmarket" part of town - and bringing it down piece by piece 
.
Not massive debt elsewhere, car on pcp ect no big big numbers bar car/house.
I can get to work in under song track if i feel like giving it some, got great scenery just 3 mins from my door to drop the roof to.
No children or partners (currently) to suck the notes out of my wallet. But getting on a bit at 42, yes i know that not a lot but hey i hate looking in the mirror as much as the next person.
Most around here in the service industry, mid teens to low 20s average take home - only issue is finding employment which is easy as long as your looking for min wage or a few grand more.
.Not massive debt elsewhere, car on pcp ect no big big numbers bar car/house.
I can get to work in under song track if i feel like giving it some, got great scenery just 3 mins from my door to drop the roof to.
No children or partners (currently) to suck the notes out of my wallet. But getting on a bit at 42, yes i know that not a lot but hey i hate looking in the mirror as much as the next person.
Most around here in the service industry, mid teens to low 20s average take home - only issue is finding employment which is easy as long as your looking for min wage or a few grand more.
I've seen a few people over the years who have made some money but try to portray that they live a frugal lifestyle. They want to give the impression usually to those they employ or associate with during business, that they make every attempt they can to be cautious with their spending. I have seen them even get angry/uneasy with those around them who might for example go out and buy a posh coffee, reminding them how expensive it is and how they should not be doing it 'on their wage' as if it's a lesson being taught. What is really is, is a form of control they seek over others. I'm the big balls here, stop with your pretend wealth....without having the nuts to say that.
What they are actually doing is feeling exposed because they know they just spent 5K on a coffee machine and 2K on posh coffee to fill it and are desperate to tell everyone, but then they would give up their made up image of frugality, though sometimes they have to steam in and sneer. They get really uncomfortable when people less wealthy than them talk money because they have created this image that they are not like that...when the people who know them know it's all front, a show put on to create an image of working hard to protect their hard earned, a frugal lifestyle and knowing the value of a penny. Reality is when they then mix with people like them they tend to be the biggest willy wavers you will ever meet, I find that really odd but I have seen it a few times and still makes me smile.
I tend to agree that old school money tends to be less about the money but that's because they think it's normal to go buy a £1M car or holiday home, it's all they know and as most were schooled at the finest public schools all their friends know. I think most people who start to earn well go through the 'look at my wad' phase, not all but most. I did and I have seen it MANY times and still do but then you grow up and realise that you really are far from wealthy, far from rich, far from being a made man or woman. We see it on this forum now and again and it is SO obvious.
However I have zero issue with people who have worked hard, made a load of money and then go out and enjoy the fruits of their labour, all power to them. But I do find particular with those who make money from money it creates massive detachment and ego that is often distasteful and then it becomes a game of one upmanship and a place where the emperors new clothes are all the rage....the land of pay overs and pay big overs because you can and MUST be first. Fine line between indulging a passion because you can and doing it because you must to keep with the in crowd.
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I was comfortable with 30k plus (outside London) But this is not including a house or car. All depends on the value of house and car, I have neither but do go on quite a few holidays.
Edit - Currently rent an apartment for £800 (split between myself and housemate)
Edit - Currently rent an apartment for £800 (split between myself and housemate)
My mortgage for a 2 bedroom house is £253 a month. Which is more than it really should have been, because I was advised to get an endowment mortgage and took that advice. Years later, I had to sell the endowment for less than I had already paid into it and switch to a repayment mortgage with higher payments than I would have had if I'd had a repayment mortgage from the beginning.
My council tax is band A in a rancid city of decay and deprivation so it's cheap, I don't have a car (can't afford one), rarely go anywhere in any way other than walking (I live close to where I work), don't go out (I'd rather have a mug of tea and a good book or game for my entertainment), don't smoke, drink one bottle of beer every few weeks, don't have any children. Also, I'm at work ~55 hours a week so I don't have much life to spend money on anyway.
As a result of my circumstances, I'm finding £15600 a year (minimum wage, 40 paid hours a week) a decent wage. I can maintain a bit of a cash buffer to handle required unexpected expenses (e.g. having to buy a new washing machine) without going into debt. I can buy toys for myself (like the graphics card I bought a few months ago), which I only do when the spare cash buffer is large enough to remain above a certain amount after the cost of the toys. I only check my account once a month and I don't even know what day I get paid on because I don't have to worry about it. That's relatively wealthy from my point of view - having enough money to not be constantly worrying about money. Most people I know are in a far worse situation on the same money because their living costs are far higher. For example, on our incomes having to spend money on commuting costs is a big deal. A buss pass is £20 a week. It can cost some of my coworkers more than 2 hours pay to get a taxi one way and sometimes they have to get a taxi because buses don't run late enough. So right off the bat they're £100+ a month worse off than me and that's a big difference on minimum wage.
There are some very weird attitudes when it comes to wealth and perceptions. I've seen it a few times when the willy wavers can't recognise someone who has real money but who spend it on expensive but not so flashy/showy things and then make a fool of themselves assuming the person doesn't have as much money as them.
The very wealthy have nothing to prove and nothing to fear. The slightly wealthy can very easily feel that they have to prove themselves upper class and can very easily fear not being upper class or even becoming not wealthy (especially if they think they have obtained their money by being better than other people, the "I worked for it" mentality). "nouveau riche" and "parvenu" aren't just social snobbery dismissals. It's been noted for at least millenia (there are, for example, quite a few references to it in ancient Rome).
It's a tendency, as you note. The wealthiest person I've known personally had a couple of million quid about 30 years ago. Wealthy, but not insanely wealthy. He was a lovely chap because he felt no need to prove he was rich, to prove he was part of the upper class, and he felt no fear of not not doing so. He had a well paid job he was very good at and enjoyed doing and was content. His wealth wasn't even intentional - he'd written a book that sold very well.
The Harry Enfield sketches with the West Midlands (self made) businessman and the hotel owner say it all
Hah! not quite as exaggerated but seen that kind of thing.
I think you and Housey have hit it tbh. The wealthiest person I associate with on a regular basis is very much like the guy you describe. In fact you wouldn't think he had two pennies to rub together, drives a 15 year old bmw 3 series as his daily for example. However he's very generous with his time and money. Always repays well for favours and never forgets a good deed someone has done for him.