Are cars good value?

[cheesyboy]

Old cars are money pits. As in, every month something else needs fixing. Or, you can get lucky and have very little go wrong.

New cars are more of a predictable expense. You don't expect a new car to have anything go wrong - and servicing and consumables need to be done at predictable intervals.

I dunno about 'get lucky'. From experience, regular problems are 'unlucky' rather than some sort of expectation.

Between my wife and I, we've had 5 cars bought at between 4 and 10 years old over the past 10 or so years, and none of them have required much more than consumables. I've had one alternator, one power steering pump, and one oil pump (that one on a Passat bought at 5.5 years for £5.5k, dying at 10.5 years). And these cars aren't well-treated.

 

[Nasher]

You could do an engine rebuild on an old car every year and it would still be cheaper than paying for a new car.

I've only ever had one expensive problem on a used car where the turbo exploded (Audi diesel ofc). Would have been a 3k repair if it wasn't still covered by the dealership warranty.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Parts like that have always worn out. Some parts are designed to wear so that more expensive parts don't though, since there's always a weak point.

What has dropped in quality is interiors. All the plastics are as soft as butter now since they all need to be recycled/recyclable materials. Also paint became extremely soft since they moved away from being oil based.

Some old cars are very reliable though. Most of them being Japanese. Look at the Supras, Skylines, S2000 for example.

the reason for old japanese cars being reliable is because they were hand made. issues on the production line were spotted earlier as each part of th eprocess there was a human overseeing it.

usa and europe moved to automated production lines before the japanese did. so when there was an issue it was never removed and carried on until the car was complete. so they had a lot more failures.

nowadays japanese cars are also automated lines. however they do tend to not be as over-engineered but a lot of people want a car filled with things that can go wrong so they opt for something german instead.

 

[Nasher]

I dunno. The Japs still seem to get a lot of the small details right. E.g. I see German cars without even paint under the carpets or behind interior panels etc. But my Toyota has been painted and lacquered absolutely everywhere, even places you won't see unless you really dig down. Same with some of the mechanical bits which seem to be more durable in general.

 

[SC0TTRS]

Money pits, old or new.

 

[Fusion]

the reason for old japanese cars being reliable is because they were hand made. issues on the production line were spotted earlier as each part of th eprocess there was a human overseeing it.

usa and europe moved to automated production lines before the japanese did. so when there was an issue it was never removed and carried on until the car was complete. so they had a lot more failures.

Lot of generalisations there. There's no reason why anything hand made should be better than something made on an automated production system. Do you think consumer electronics (phones etc) would be more reliable if all the components were hand soldered? Of course not, they're done on pick and place machines, which are super fast and very very accurate.

Manufacturing industries have all sorts of quality systems in place to ensure good product, especially high volume industries such as automotive (look up Six Sigma).

Processes are only as good as the design, analysis done beforehand, quality systems and correct implementation of these systems.

For the record, I work in this field (not vehicles, but lots of different parts and systems that go into them).

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I dunno. The Japs still seem to get a lot of the small details right. E.g. I see German cars without even paint under the carpets or behind interior panels etc. But my Toyota has been painted and lacquered absolutely everywhere, even places you won't see unless you really dig down. Same with some of the mechanical bits which seem to be more durable in general.

toyota and lexus do come top in the reliability charts. i think it may be my next car. the wife has a lexus and it's fantastic.

 

[adam cool dude]

toyota and lexus do come top in the reliability charts. i think it may be my next car. the wife has a lexus and it's fantastic.

There reason for this in Toyota's case they own or have a controlling stake in most of the stuff that goes into their cars which is obviously better for communication and integration.

 

[shadow_boxer]

Can't fault my E46. Will have had it 10 years in September. I was the second owner after lease company. Bar maintainence, its had water pump replaced, new battery and tiny bit of suspension work done. In terms of value to money its been incredible. Granted its only a 320Ci but i bought it from auction in 2008 (was 4 years old at the time) for the grand sum of 7500 inc fees. Probably still worth a couple of thousand now. New cars offer predictable expense but high depreciation where as older cars are a bit more of the unknown. Looking as second hand cars now I struggle to anything I like with good value for money.

 

[mrbazmondo]

For them to be good value, first you need something to compare against.
If the annual cost of running, maintaining, parking, fuelling the car, added to annual depreciation is less than using train + bus for the same journeys then its definitely good value. You then also have to take into account that you can travel when you want to, directly to where you want to, plus you never have to stand up for the entire journey.

 

[adam cool dude]

The only times cars can be good value if you buy something classic when cheap and sell when expensive. Integrale as an example were 20k ten years ago. Now 60k for a good one. That's a 200% return over ten years.

 

[lordrobs]

The scale of production makes new cars incredible value for money in my eyes. Note that I'm taking the car as an object and considering what you get for your money rather than as an investment prospect that some people seem to be talking about.

The company I work for makes low volume kit to order and it always makes me laugh when someone looks at something and says "I could buy a new car for that much". Not if they make less than ten of that model a year to order you wouldn't

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Compared to public transport cars *can* be good value but it is ultimately dependent on where you live and work.

We are a 2 car household and live in a small town but neither of us can get to work on public transport and it is far too many miles to walk/cycle. In this case cars are excellent value.

If I lived and work in the same area then the value in having 2 cars drops significantly. That being said the costs of public transport is extortionate and if you need to use it daily and then for leisure the costs add up really quickly. Public transport also generally limits you to what you can carry so any trips to Ikea are out without hiring a car/van as is doing a weekly shop for 4 at your local supermarket without using a Taxi which is more £££.

Those that only do a few K a year then you should consider getting an e-bike and hiring a car to do any long trips. Health dependent of course.

 

[pigeonguyuk]

this is subjective. everyone values things differently. However, due to depreciation a new car will always be worse value for money as in "your" first year of ownership it will lose more value (%) than a 2nd alternative due to the number of previous owners at point of sale