"You are very naive" well that's a great argument
78 year old pensioner arrested for for stabbing burglar (burglar later died in hospital)
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"You are very naive" well that's a great argument
@dowie where are you getting him being charged from as far as I can see "A 78-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death." Two very different things.
He has to be questioned with counsel, police have to gather evedience within guidelines for courts to accept it.
What is your actual issue.
He has to be questioned with counsel, police have to gather evedience within guidelines for courts to accept it.
What is your actual issue.
The old guy could have easily chased the burglar out in to the streets before stabbing him.
The police need to gather the facts, that involved arresting the person guilty of stabbing someone to death.
perhaps he did (seems rather unlikely), but my comments are based on the condition that that isn't the case
as I said before if he's stabbed the guy in the back etc.. then fair enough
(I suspect it isn't the case based on the reporting so far - a single stab wound after a struggle - seems more like the burglar ran off because he was stabbed)
sorry can you quote the post you're referring to, I might have typed it somewhere by mistake but I've generally referred to him being arrested throughout the thread?
my issue is the victim of a burglary who is perhaps already traumatised, being arrested and taken to a police station in the middle of the night (with the condition that we're talking about a self defence scenario/that there isn't further evidence as yet unreported to suggest murder etc..)
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Seems that there is a lot of confusion about what has actually happened to the old guy.
He has been arrested, not charged. There is no indication that he is going to be charged either with what information is being released it "seems" like there was some sort of struggle and a burglar has suffered a fatal injury.
My gut feeling is that this would be classed as a lawful killing.
Being arrested is in no way the same as being guilty. Oftentimes multiple people can be arrested for the same crime as they are under suspicion, they can later be released without charge. Unfortunately our media do not use this information responsibly and have been guilty of destroying the lives of "suspects" before a completely different person is charged and convicted of a crime.
He has been arrested, not charged. There is no indication that he is going to be charged either with what information is being released it "seems" like there was some sort of struggle and a burglar has suffered a fatal injury.
My gut feeling is that this would be classed as a lawful killing.
Being arrested is in no way the same as being guilty. Oftentimes multiple people can be arrested for the same crime as they are under suspicion, they can later be released without charge. Unfortunately our media do not use this information responsibly and have been guilty of destroying the lives of "suspects" before a completely different person is charged and convicted of a crime.
Can someone point out the post re: him being charged (admittedly I've made a few in this thread and perhaps rushed one or two but I thought I'd used "arrested" in my posts? I did mistype one on the first page but edited shortly after... aside for that I'm not sure I've said that, I certainly didn't intend to if I have somewhere so would like to correct if that is the case)
All of this hinges entirely on what is deemed reasonable to defend yourself. All that's been made public is that there was a struggle, the details could be anywhere from the burglar stabbing himself by accident because he tripped over during a scuffle all the way to the old man deliberately stabbing an otherwise neutralised threat with intent to kill him as revenge.
The truth almost certainly lies in the middle but on the basis of a GBH arrest, followed by a murder rearrest, I'd like to think there is some detail available to the police that they've currently deemed prudent not to publicise that has led to them taking this action.
I'm sure they'd rather avoid arresting people if they could just to avoid the extra paperwork
The truth almost certainly lies in the middle but on the basis of a GBH arrest, followed by a murder rearrest, I'd like to think there is some detail available to the police that they've currently deemed prudent not to publicise that has led to them taking this action.
I'm sure they'd rather avoid arresting people if they could just to avoid the extra paperwork
Pretty much this - the devil is in the detail and we don't have any detail whatsoever. Being arrested doesn't mean you're guilty, but there are questions that are going to have to be asked.
I'm sure they'd rather avoid arresting people if they could just to avoid the extra paperwork
I'm sure they would avoid doing it because they think the burglar is a scumbag who got what he deserved, as much if not more than the rest of the public.
Being 78 years old against an (assumed) younger person could lead to a higher instinctive response to end the conflict quickly and any way possible. As a 65 year old, I could understand that, you put the man down so he does not get up again and batter you.
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I would expect they'll run down the PACE clock before charging considering outstanding burglary suspects/witnesses are out there plus analysis of the scene etc.
fixed
If you don't mind, since you're police can you comment on how standard this is for say a (granted I am making some assumptions here) victim of a crime who had seemingly fought back to be arrested and taken in vs perhaps being questioned under caution?
Is it more usual if there is some suspicion that it perhaps wasn't just self defence etc.. or is it standard in almost any case? Like, for example, would a kidnapping or rape victim who succesfully defended themselves get arrested as a standard procedure if the attacker was severely injured or killed instead of say being questioned under caution?
Also when he was arrested first it was GBH, then the burglar died and he was re-arrested under suspicion of murder - is that a default thing to do simply because the burglar died or a discretionary decision the police would have made?
And the prosecution service will take his age and frailty into account, thus the "reasonable force" might be much more severe.
Doesn't sound too frail if he can overpower someone 40 years younger than himself.
Certainly be interesting to see what happens to the chap, burglar only sustained a single stab wound and died off property so no idea what the police have concluded from evidence to go straight to murder charge instead of manslaughter. Hope his duty solicitor isn't completely useless.
Sky has released a photo of the victim:
Also the dead burglar's buddy was a bit useless in helping him, pulled the (according to what the below the witness believes) knife out and then after an attempt to drag him to a van he decided he wanted to save his own skin instead of sticking around for an ambulance...
Also the dead burglar's buddy was a bit useless in helping him, pulled the (according to what the below the witness believes) knife out and then after an attempt to drag him to a van he decided he wanted to save his own skin instead of sticking around for an ambulance...
no that's the man being held on murder
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