no jury will convict this guy so i doubt it will get that far.
78 year old pensioner arrested for for stabbing burglar (burglar later died in hospital)
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no jury will convict this guy so i doubt it will get that far.
Legalising rape, torture and murder with an excuse of revenge (legitimate or just made up) is not a good idea. Why on earth do you think it is? Would you really want to live in a country where anyone could freely rape, torture and murder you and/or your loved ones (if you have any) without any concern for any consequences as long as they claimed right of vengeance?
And yes, that is what you're calling for. We already have extremely strong defence rights, up to and including killing in defence. You are openly advocating no restrictions at all, so you are advocating that rape, torture and murder for revenge be legalised. Since you're also opposing investigation of justification by revenge claims, you are actually advocating that rape, torture and murder be legal under any circumstances as long as the attacker lies.
Let's say, for example, I'm a nutter who hates you for some reason. I decide to torture you to death for jollies, so I get you into my home (by deceit or by force, doesn't matter) and torture you to death. I video it all so I can relive it in the future. I then tell the police you broke into my home. With the laws you're calling for, I'm in the clear. I couldn't even be arrested, let alone charged or jailed.
Is that really the law you want? I think that you might not have thought it through.
The law on self-defence hasn't changed meaningfully in a very long time. You can use a level of force that is reasonable in the circumstances as you honestly believe them to be and the force does not have to be finely measured. 'Disproportionate' is just another way of phrasing that last part. The 2008 legislation didn't change how the law is actually applied in practice, which is why the High Court didn't have any difficulty with saying it was compatible with the ECHR.
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That's if we actually know all the facts.
There was a public outcry for Tony Martin and it was then released he had laid in wait for the scumbags and shot them in the back.
However if he is on pre charge bail it looks like the story could be true.
Yeah, I think the fact they haven't charged him and also the very likely possibility that the police are being told to go **** themselves or just facing a wall of silence from the "community" the two burglars are from (re: trying to locate the second burglar) probably means that even if he had gone OTT there aren't any witnesses to it aside from the 78 yr old homeowner himself and possibly his wife (who apparently suffers from dementia).
It does just sound like a man defending himself/worried about the safety of his wife after being threatened with a weapon in his own home... short of some forensics showing the knife would was in the back etc.. then presumably they have nothing on him?
Good old Star Lane....in classy St Mary's Cray?
Rantings? Haha. The only rant is your racist bile. At least you've finally plucked up the courage to show your true colours for once. Not that there was any doubt.I am afraid it's rantings like yours that have allowed this situation to have developed to the level it has, with politicians and the authorities terrified that someone like your good self will enter stage left with accusations of racism when the vast majority of the perpetrators are undeniably mainly young black men with aspirations of a life as some sort of gangster. I haven't seen the BBC interviewing any ex white gangsters, so in their hearts they know that this is indeed a problem with black males living outside of the law, with no regard to life and limb, and with access to firearms, with no compunction not to use them. Shock horror, this is the truth of the matter
And of course it is someone else's fault you don't like blacks. "The left" and the media compels you to. And yet you claim in the Brexit thread the media don't tell the truth and they have no impact on your decision making. So which is it?
Would be interested in you posting some evidence but we both know that will never happen.
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Here's some evidence for you, spot the Fred Smith's amongst them.... Bluster all you will, this current spate of murder in London is fuelled by drug gang warfare and is predominantly carried out by black or ethnic males, mainly upon other black or ethnic males. It's considered the London drug situation is now mainly fuelled by Albanian gang leaders bringing in narcotics for the footsoldiers to distribute.
1) Steve Frank Navarez-Jara was the first person to be killed in 2018. The 20-year-old was stabbed on New Year's Day in Islington. His family said they "pray to God that Steve's death brings knife crime to an end."
2) Elizabeta Lacatusu, who came to London from Romania to work, was stabbed in Redbridge on 3 January. She was 44.
3) Vijay Patel, 49, died on 6 January after being attacked outside a shop in Mill Hill.
4) Daniel Frederick died at the age of 34 after being stabbed in Hackney on 8 January.
5) Dami Odeyingbo was only 18 when he was stabbed on 9 January in Bromley. He died in hospital the next morning.
6) Harry Uzoka worked as a model in London. The 25-year-old was killed after being stabbed in the heart in Shepherd's Bush on 11 January.
Image copyright Harry Uzoka
Image caption Harry Uzoka died at the scene in west London
7) Seyed Azim Khan's body was found in Ilford Cemetery with extensive head injuries in February, after he went missing on 24 January.
8) Yaya Mbye was 26 when he died in hospital, having been stabbed in Stoke Newington on 28 January.
9) Juan Olmos Saca died after being stabbed in the chest in Peckham on the 29 January. The 39-year-old spent a week in hospital but never recovered from his injuries.
10) Lily-Mai Saint George was less than a year old when she was killed in Haringey on 31 January. The cause of death is currently unknown.
11) Khader Saleh was stabbed at Wormwood Scrubs prison on 31 January. The 25-year-old's brother said the inmate was "a young man trying to move on in his life".
February 2018
12) Hassan Ozcan was just 19 when he died from multiple stab wounds in Barking on 3 February.
13) Kwabena Nelson, a youth worker from Tottenham, died after being stabbed near his home on 3 February.
14) Hannah Leonard, 55, was stabbed in a flat in Camden on 8 February.
Image copyright Met Police
Image caption Hannah Leonard was found dead inside a flat in Camden
15) Sabri Chibani was 19 when he was stabbed in the chest in Streatham on 11 February.
16) Bulent Kabala was the first person to die from a gunshot wound in 2018. The 41-year-old was shot on 12 February and died at the scene in Barnet.
17) Saeeda Hussain, 54, was stabbed at an address in Ilford on 13 February and died from her injuries.
18) Lord Promise Nkenda was just 17 when he was stabbed in Canning Town on Valentine's Day.
19) Mark Smith, 48, died from multiple injuries after being found unconscious in Waltham Forest on 15 February.
20) Lewis Blackman was stabbed in the early hours of 18 February after attending a party in Kensington. He died aged 19.
Image copyright Met Police
Image caption Lewis Blackman had been at a party in Kensington before he was stabbed
21) Jozef Boci suffered serious head injuries after being attacked on the street in Greenwich on 17 February. The 30-year-old was taken to hospital but died from his injuries just under a week later.
22) Rotimi Oshibanjo was stabbed in Southall on 19 February. The 26-year-old died from his injuries.
23) Sadiq Mohammed, 20, died after being stabbed in Camden on 20 February. His mother begged those with knives to stop using them and called for action from police.
24) Abdikarim Hassan, 17, died on the same night after also being stabbed in Camden.
25) A 24-year-old was shot and killed in Westminster on 20 February. Police are waiting for permission from the family to release the name of the victim.
26) Michael Boyle died from a single stab wound to the chest. He was attacked on 25 February and died in hospital, aged 44, on 10 March.
March 2018
27) Christopher Beaumont was stabbed at an address in Hammersmith on 1 March. The 42-year-old died from his injuries.
28) Laura Figueira, 47, was found dead at her home in Twickenham on 5 March having suffered from stab wounds. Later the same day, her husband and two young sons were discovered at Birling Gap seafront, East Sussex, with all three having died from multiple injuries consistent with falling from a height.
29) Kelva Smith was 20 when he died after being stabbed in the abdomen in Croydon. His aunt said London's issue with knife crime was "out of control".
30) Kelvin Odunuyi was shot outside a cinema in Wood Green on 8 March. He was 19 when he died.
31) Julian Joseph, 36, died in hospital after being attacked on a bus in New Cross on 12 March and suffering a serious head injury.
32) Nikolai Glushkov is the oldest person to have been killed in 2018 at the age of 68. He died from compression to the neck in New Malden on 13 March.
Image copyright Facebook
Image caption Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov was found dead at his home
33) Joseph William-Torres, 20, was shot in a car in Walthamstow on 14 March.
34) Lyndon Davis was 18 when he was stabbed in Chadwell Heath on 14 March. He died a few hours later.
35) Naomi Hersi was found with stab wounds at a hotel near Heathrow Airport on 16 March. The 36-year-old was pronounced dead 30 minutes later.
36) Russell Jones, 23, died after suffering from stab injuries and a gunshot wound in Enfield on 17 March.
37) Tyrone Silcott was 41 when he died after being stabbed in Hackney on 18 March.
38) Balbir Johal was admitted to hospital with stab wounds after being attacked in Southall on 19 March. The 48-year-old died shortly after.
39) A 41-year-old was stabbed in Waltham Forest on 19 March, but has yet to be formally identified by the police.
40) Beniamin Pieknyi was 21 when he was found with stab wounds at the Stratford shopping centre on 20 March. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
Image copyright Met Police
Image caption Police found Beniamin Pieknye at Stratford Centre with stab wounds
41) Abraham Badru, 26, was shot in Dalston on 25 March. He was described by his family as kind, bold and a "beautiful soul" who "hated confrontation".
42) A 59-year-old was killed in Barking on 25 March, but police have not released any more information or formally identified the victim.
43) David Potter was found dead inside a house in Tooting High Street on 26 March. The 50-year-old had suffered from stab injuries.
44) Reece Tshoma was 23 when he was stabbed in Plumstead on 29 March.
45) Leyla Mtumwa, 36, was found with stab wounds at a home in Haringey on 30 March. She died from her injuries.
46) An 80-year-old woman died in hospital after an incident in Camden on 31 March. Police have not given any more details.
April 2018
47) A 20-year-old was stabbed in Wandsworth on 1 April, but police have not formally identified the victim.
48) Tanesha Melbourne died on 2 April after a drive-by shooting in Tottenham. Friends described the 17-year-old as a "very lovable little girl in the community".
49) Amaan Shakoor was shot in the face on 2 April in Walthamstow. The 16-year-old died a day later in hospital.
50) Henry Vincent was stabbed at a house in Lewisham on 4 April. The 37-year-old was found collapsed in the street and died from his injuries a few hours later in hospital.
51) A 53-year-old man was pronounced dead at a bookmakers in Upper Clapton on 4 April following reports of an altercation with another man.
52) Israel Ogunsola, 18, was stabbed to death in Hackney on 4 April. Police were alerted by a motorist and performed first aid but the teenager died at the scene.
Another thing to consider is that, as with motor accidents, concentrating on "Deaths" is a poor metric.
Whether or not somebody actually dies as a result of being stabbed/shot has a high degree of Luck to it (As with motor accidents)
The total numbers of those being stabbed/shot, including all those that didn't die, is actually a much more relevant statistic...
Whether or not somebody actually dies as a result of being stabbed/shot has a high degree of Luck to it (As with motor accidents)
The total numbers of those being stabbed/shot, including all those that didn't die, is actually a much more relevant statistic...
true, but it certainly sounds pretty clear cut.
if i remember correctly wasn't there a case a few years ago of a shop owner chasing down a burgler and killing him in the street - he got convicted at first but was acquitted in a retrial?
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What a family the guy who died had! So many convictions for crimes against the elderly.
I still think Tony Martin got shafted to some extent. Keep in mind these people had repeatedly targeted him so of course he was lying in wait prepared. As for shooting the idiot in the back - what was to stop the piece of crap coming back for another go or retaliation? Certainly not the police as they'd done sweet F A to help him to that point.
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It's rather ironic that one who had blighted the lives of so many vulnerable old people came to die at the hands of a 78 year old. I would imagine pensioners across London and the country as a whole are smiling wryly at this morning's papers.
The Uk is such a joke when it comes to things like this it’s time for the laws to change. You should be able to defend your home at whatever cost if they enter your property! That’s why crime is so high because they can do whatever they want thanks to lawless Britain and no plod anywhere to be seen.
It's factually correct to state the recent murders involve mostly black people as both the victims and perpetrators. This isn't racist.
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Its stupid to put your life in danger over material objects.
Just let them take whatever then when they have gone call the police.
Just let them take whatever then when they have gone call the police.
So what if Tony Martin waited for them? Don't go robbing houses!
So what if the home owner chases them down the street? Again, don't go robbing houses.
In the case the thread is talking about, the odds against the pensioner was a lot higher than the cases mentioned. There were TWO armed people robbing this guys house.
If 2 armed people broke in to your house wouldn't you think your life is in danger? If yes, then you can use deadly force.
The reason we have all this crime is because sadly the police have near zero presense in areas. Mainly because of police shortages. How long ago have you seen a police man/woman walking the beat?
We have a major law and order problem in this country and its just now being highlighted with the London situation, and I bet London as far more police than the rest of the country, yet it still isn't enough.
My town had its police station removed years ago. The nearest station is 4 miles (15 minutes) away according to google.
So what if the home owner chases them down the street? Again, don't go robbing houses.
In the case the thread is talking about, the odds against the pensioner was a lot higher than the cases mentioned. There were TWO armed people robbing this guys house.
If 2 armed people broke in to your house wouldn't you think your life is in danger? If yes, then you can use deadly force.
The reason we have all this crime is because sadly the police have near zero presense in areas. Mainly because of police shortages. How long ago have you seen a police man/woman walking the beat?
We have a major law and order problem in this country and its just now being highlighted with the London situation, and I bet London as far more police than the rest of the country, yet it still isn't enough.
My town had its police station removed years ago. The nearest station is 4 miles (15 minutes) away according to google.
Soldato
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But... shouldn't we have the right to protect them material objects and with force if necessary.
In the end, we all have to work and earn for the objects we own, working weeks or months to save enough to buy it, why shouldn't a person not defend it if someone tries to steal it?
I didn't expect this topic to go 15 pages. I personally think it's a open and shut case. Two burglars half this guys age armed with weapons breaking into his home after midnight.
To me he has used "reasonable force" in defending himself, more so, since he is older, it's at midnight and the burglars are armed and half his years
The whole arresting thing arresting him, charging him whatever next is standard stuff you expect to happen after this. I'm expecting the CPS will throw it out and if it goes to trial. I'm expecting him to win.
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