Why are we not taking our ecological responsibilities more seriously?

[UTmaniac]

Sir David did a documentary about the world population sustainability sometime in the last ~5 years, cannot find youtube link now, but IIRC he said back then ~13 billion was the absolute maximum being talked about back then by "the experts."

 

[Skillmister]

Ive tried reporting it to the council but suspect it doesnt get actioned. Your council may well be better than mine.
Theres a seafront car park that i was every day in the way to work. It tends to have chavs in their crapmobiles in it all night and every morning the lines between the bays are covered in mcdonalds wrappers, cups and bags. There are bins spaced every 10m.

In Skillmister's Britain littering would be punished by loss of fingers. People look at me like I'm crazy for saying it but I honestly don't see the problem, littering is absolutely inexcusable. Out on the mountain bike at the weekend and the number of food wrappers and even inner tubes just thrown by the side of the trail is disgraceful.

 

[Amp34]

And while 13 Billion may be sustainable - in the sense that humans could survive reasonably comfortably on all the resources on earth - numbers like that will probably mean the death of wilderness and wildlife as we know it. It's unlikely much outside of a few heavily visited national parks will be "wild" any more, unless it's so inhospitable that it's impossible to live.

We are already seeing a massive collapse in the ecosystem and population numbers of everything from large mammals*, to fish to insects.

*Although that has been happening for the last 10-15k+ years. Humans arrive, we hunt these to extinction first.

 

[G-MAN2004]

Agent Smith was right about humans in The Matrix.

 

[Angilion]

In Skillmister's Britain littering would be punished by loss of fingers. People look at me like I'm crazy for saying it but I honestly don't see the problem, littering is absolutely inexcusable. Out on the mountain bike at the weekend and the number of food wrappers and even inner tubes just thrown by the side of the trail is disgraceful.

I think forced labour would be a far more reasonable response. x hours in a deliberately ugly uniform picking up litter. Maybe also a fine, with the fines to be used to pay the equivalent of wages to council workers who would otherwise have been picking up litter.

Much more ethical than mutilation, don't you think?

I'd vote for it. Everyone benefits - more litter is picked up, nobody has their wages decreased due to the forced labour and there should be less littering in a fairly short time.

 

[Rroff]

In Skillmister's Britain littering would be punished by loss of fingers. People look at me like I'm crazy for saying it but I honestly don't see the problem, littering is absolutely inexcusable. Out on the mountain bike at the weekend and the number of food wrappers and even inner tubes just thrown by the side of the trail is disgraceful.

Do people need to be told not to do this stuff? I can't remember a time when I didn't think it scummy and short sighted to litter.

 

[Phate]

One question I have about plastic recycling and this is a genuine question. I did see/hear somewhere that the biggest problem with plastic once it's recycled is:

- only a small percentage of it can actually be broken down to be repurposed/used. Something like 10-25%

Also, the problem with plastic lasting so long is that even recycled, ultimately it almost always ends up in the same place anyway, in a tip, then eventually the ocean.

Me personally, I do my bit where I can. Recycle as much as possible. Swapped to water filters to reduce the plastic bottle waste down to zero.

Wifey and I are looking into a supermarket nearby where you bring your own containers to use and everything you buy is in weighed amounts.

Next up is those natural soaps/toothpastes to reduce the amount of plastic we get through with those. Also saving up to swap to an electric car.

What frustrates me is like many others have mentioned...people just cannot be bothered. The apartment block where I live is a good example. We have normal waste bins on every corner of the building and recycling on only one corner. The majority of waste ends up in the general waste bins or near it. But then again I think even if we had as many recycling bins as general waste, people still wouldn't care.

Sad times

 

[Tefal]

Me personally, I do my bit where I can. Recycle as much as possible. Swapped to water filters to reduce the plastic bottle waste down to zero.

And increase your plastic filter waste by 100%!

Next up is those natural soaps/toothpastes to reduce the amount of plastic we get through with those. Also saving up to swap to an electric car.

Why not just buy a refillable soap bottle and the 5 litre massive jugs of liquid soap (hotels/business use them).
1 bottle will last you an age

 

[Phate]

We do for hand soap. I was talking more for shower soaps

 

[ubersonic]

It's a catch 22 situation, the eco warriors whine and whine about plastic going into the oceans, landfills, etc. But if you try and incinerate it instead they whine even harder.

 

[413x]

I think forced labour would be a far more reasonable response. x hours in a deliberately ugly uniform picking up litter. Maybe also a fine, with the fines to be used to pay the equivalent of wages to council workers who would otherwise have been picking up litter.

Much more ethical than mutilation, don't you think?

I'd vote for it. Everyone benefits - more litter is picked up, nobody has their wages decreased due to the forced labour and there should be less littering in a fairly short time.

I'd vote for it

I vote green now in the elections.
I know they will never get in but no one else is doing enough.
Still know it will be too late anyway. At least I will probably be gone by time it all Collapses

Wonder what it will be like on 50 when I (if I'm alive) will be 80+

 

[StriderX]

Its not about voting, its about changing the natural behaviour of nations we ultimately abused for our own progress.

The answer is obvious and Paris, Kyoto and whatever other tin can is just killing more people down the road. The toughest decision the West will undoubtedly have to make isn't to save the planet, it's to save the people, and that means saying no when it matters.

 

[Jokester]

Today is World Environment day as it happens.

https://www.unenvironment.org/events/un-environment-event/world-environment-day-2018

 

[glenimp617]

make me laugh that Sky are doing the ocean rescue scheme, yet when you order anything from sky it comes with oodles of plastic

local council force you to recycle in set wheelie bins, won't empty them if not filled right etc etc.....yet everyday I get tons of junk mail

ITs not Western Society that needs to get its ideas together, we have, its just a matter of time.

THE WHOLE rest of the world needs to care, which it won't because caring costs money.

^ This! it's all well and good our TINY island is doing a little bit.....but pales in comparison to the likes of India and China dumping tons and tons of rubbish into the oceans

It all boils down to one simple truth. The majority of people don't care, or live under a communist regime who doesn't care.

 

[the_r_sole]

^ This! it's all well and good our TINY island is doing a little bit.....but pales in comparison to the likes of India and China dumping tons and tons of rubbish into the oceans

It all boils down to one simple truth. The majority of people don't care, or live under a communist regime who doesn't care.

The problem there is really that we've already done the awful stuff to the environment whilst advancing ourselves, now we've got a mature economy we can recognise the environmental problems we have caused, China and India are growing economies who have the same priotiries we had.
It's hard for us to stipulate measures onto others which would seriously slow their economic development, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just difficult to handle politically.
Some people in Britain think the EU targets for carbon reduction are too stringent and are hampering our economy - it's an argument I heard during the Brexit campaign, all that red tape coming from Brussels... But we think we can (or should) impose restrictions onto other nations we have no political link with?
It's better to be part of the solution, or at least try to be, than part of the problem, if we can show the way forward then others might get on board, if we just think "stuff it, there's others doing worse than us so we might as well join in" then nothing will ever get better

 

[Amp34]

^ This! it's all well and good our TINY island is doing a little bit.....but pales in comparison to the likes of India and China dumping tons and tons of rubbish into the oceans

It all boils down to one simple truth. The majority of people don't care, or live under a communist regime who doesn't care.

This is rather outdated. China is moving to the forefront of environmental protection and is cleaning up its act faster than pretty much any other country.

They implemented much stricter air pollution laws about four years ago, are at the forefront of electric car penetration and regulation are pushing hard on the renewable energy front. They've also tightened up general environmental legislation and enforcement recently, it's one of the reasons they decided to ban the importing of our "recycling".

https://thediplomat.com/2017/12/china-cleans-up-its-act-on-environmental-enforcement/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pollution-recycling-china-petricic-1.4593078
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...new-energy-vehicle-production-quota-from-2019
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/chi...th-86-point-5-billion-invested-last-year.html

There is a massive push worldwide, with many developing nations making developed nations look slow in their push towards a more environmentally conscious world. Not that every country is doing so, or every country can change overnight but it needs to be, and broadly is, a worldwide effort. We are getting towards 8 billion after all and if everyone just made the same excuse then we would get nowhere.

But you are broadly right, many people just don't care, which is where government legislation, policy and taxes come in. If they don't care then you make it cost them.

The problem there is really that we've already done the awful stuff to the environment whilst advancing ourselves, now we've got a mature economy we can recognise the environmental problems we have caused, China and India are growing economies who have the same priotiries we had.
It's hard for us to stipulate measures onto others which would seriously slow their economic development, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just difficult to handle politically.
Some people in Britain think the EU targets for carbon reduction are too stringent and are hampering our economy - it's an argument I heard during the Brexit campaign, all that red tape coming from Brussels... But we think we can (or should) impose restrictions onto other nations we have no political link with?
It's better to be part of the solution, or at least try to be, than part of the problem, if we can show the way forward then others might get on board, if we just think "stuff it, there's others doing worse than us so we might as well join in" then nothing will ever get better

That was one of the big things that came out of the Paris Agreement last year. Developed countries helping developing countries not fall into the same trap we did, and hopefully help them skip over it with financial help.

Additionally, the agreement aims to strengthen the ability of countries to deal with the impacts of climate change. To reach these ambitious goals, appropriate financial flows, a new technology framework and an enhanced capacity building framework will be put in place, thus supporting action by developing countries and the most vulnerable countries, in line with their own national objectives.

https://unfccc.int/process-and-meetings/the-paris-agreement/the-paris-agreement

I.e. helping fund the development of renewable infrastructure, recycling, pollution and education initiatives.

 

[dowie]

One disheartening thing is how much will it make a difference if we here in the UK or even Europe cut down on this crap when countries like India or China simply don’t give a crap and just dump garbage everywhere.

yup and the various other countries in that region too:

 

[Semple]

I don't think it's quite a case of people not caring.

Most people would be horrified at any of the articles which show how much plastic waste is being dumped into the oceans, and would happily do what they can to prevent it. But humans are undoubtedly lazy and everything is more about convenience. The only way i see plastic waste being tackled is education and supplier changes.

A prime example is with the plastic bag costs, people have had the option for decades to bring their own reusable bags, but it was much more convenient to just grab them at the till. It's required a mandatory change to force people to change their habits and now bring your own bags when you go shopping.

I think people need to be educated on how they can reduce their plastic waste, as whilst i'm sure most, just like me will recycle anything they can, everything you buy from the shops will undoubtedly come in plastic containers.

And whilst Tefal points out that you could buy a large bottle of hand soap to refill small dispensers, you don't really see this much at supermarkets. Yes i've seen refillable packs on the shelves, but they take up maybe 5% of the aisle whilst 95% is then kept for new bottle dispensers.

I would actually like to see a lot of products come in larger bottles that could be used to refill/decant smaller bottles:
- Shampoos/Conditioners
- Shower gels/soaps
- Mouthwash/toothpastes
- Cleaning products/bleaches
- Table sauces
- Squash/cordials

Yes i'm aware some of those are already available in larger sizes, but when the focus is on selling the smaller volumes, it's no wonder that people never buy in bulk.


Also, Governments/Large corps need to start funding/incentivising start-ups/scientists to come up with ways of 1) efficiently clearing up plastic waste in Oceans + on land, and 2) better ways of recycling/reusing plastic waste.

If plastic waste can be made 100% recyclable, then the environmental impact reduces significantly.

You also hear of stories like this: https://www.theguardian.com/environ...reate-mutant-enzyme-that-eats-plastic-bottles but then never really hear if it's worked on a mass scale, or is actually being used to help clean up plastic waste.

 

[Rroff]

I don't think it's quite a case of people not caring.

I disagree - passed by a "beauty spot" on my way home from work after the hot weather yesterday the amount of rubbish especially plastic waste strewn everywhere was ridiculous. Though not everyone is like that just too many people are lazy, short sighted and don't give a **** anyhow.

I do agree though there is so much more we could be doing in terms of quantity sizes and reusable containers and so on if we as a civilisation really cared.

 

[aardvark]

nobody seems to be thinking about synthetic fabrics much in al this - washing polyester, nylon etc releases microparticles of plastic and it all goes into the water supply.
Its mostly invisible but arguably more important.