Saddleworth Moor

It's being blow East to the coast, making our usually pleasant air not very pleasant :(


Makes sense, we are directly south west of the fire so at the moment clear. This will change rapidly once the wind changes direction. Just hope they manage to keep the fire away from homes close by....terrible in Carrbrook at the moment!
 
How far to Matlock?

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Can we not loan some of those fire fighting planes/helicopters from America to stop it quickly so the wildlife isn't destroyed ?

Moorland naturally burns, its part of its lifecycle. That said most moorland burns today are done intentionally to keep the environment favourable for game birds and stop the natural regeneration of vegetation that is detrimental to their businesses.

It only becomes a “problem” when it’s becomes detrimental to human infrastructure/homes/businesses, so as much as some wildlife will die its part of nature and nothing to worry about. In fact stopping natural burning can have a detrimental affect on wildlife and the environment.
 
Since when do moors randomly combust without either lightning or human interference ? I'm not sure it gets hot enough for sunlight to start a fire here so there's not really anything natural about it

Quite regularly. Anyway, the point is moorland (like many other environments) actually evolved to withstand fire and actually become stronger because of it. The boreal forests in N. America are another example, as are several Australian environments and grasslands around the world.

Edit: to clarify that point, fire and it’s role in healthy environments is complex. Too much fire is bad (too regularly, or to hot), but not enough is also detrimental (especially if it creates too much kindling which causes subsequent fires to burn nuch hotter and for longer). Ideally we should let nature take its course, but that will never happen with encroachment of human development in these areas, prescribed burns to help businesses (such as grouse shoots) and accidental lighting (cigarettes and sparks). Lightning is one of a few ways fires naturally start.
 
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Quite regularly.

Source ? Because I can't find any literature that says that sunlight heat alone is sufficient to start a fire in UK

https://www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluations.htm

Even the national park service in the states only mention lava and lightning for natural causes of fire, I'm genuinely curious how the sunlight can be hot enough to ignite dry brush without any form of focusing the energy in a specific area (the old sunlight through glass trick to burn ants)

All the documentation suggests that humans are responsible for 95% of fires, the other 5% the majority is started by lightning so no disrespect but I think your "quite regularly" comment in regards to random combustion is ill informed

I also see you're in Canada, which isn't the UK I'm asking when do English moors randomly combust not other nations moors as the environment/climate is completely different
 
Source ? Because I can't find any literature that says that sunlight heat alone is sufficient to start a fire in UK

https://www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluations.htm

Even the national park service in the states only mention lava and lightning for natural causes of fire, I'm genuinely curious how the sunlight can be hot enough to ignite dry brush without any form of focusing the energy in a specific area (the old sunlight through glass trick to burn ants)

All the documentation suggests that humans are responsible for 95% of fires, the other 5% the majority is started by lightning so no disrespect but I think your "quite regularly" comment in regards to random combustion is ill informed

I also see you're in Canada, which isn't the UK I'm asking when do English moors randomly combust not other nations moors as the environment/climate is completely different

Ahh, the age old “but you’re in a different location” argument. Except, I may be now, but only recently... Let’s discuss the point rather than try and score cheap shots shall we?

Anyway, I’d question if it’s possible anywhere for just sun to start a fire, without any concentration of rays or other interaction. Either way it’s largely irrelevant* to the point being made.

Fires are a regular part of moorland habitat, and fauna and flora have generally adapted to it. It may look a mess for a year or so but it’s likely to grow back stronger, provide a greater biodiversity of plant life, and provide more food for local wildlife in the long run.

Yes, the majority of fires are caused by humans, but to counter that the majority of natural fires (in the UK) are put out way before they would naturally go out. Worldwide this has caused issues for both biodiversity and fire intensity, which is why in many locations (including occasionally the UK) landscape is intentionally burned to reduce fire risk and help biodiversity.

I’m not quite sure how such an uncontentious comment has ended up in such a discussion TBH.

*I’ll concede that point, if we’re going down the literal “only sunlight, without any kind of focusing” claim, rather than just natural causes.

Edit: and to clarify another point, I’m not a fan of the burning grouse and livestock farmers do to clear land for their own gains. The occasional fire is not an issue and can be beneficial, consistent reburning of the same area is not. Let’s remember that most moorland in the UK is not natural anyway, it should be woodland but instead is an industrial/agricultural wasteland with very low biodiversity in the first place.
 
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Anyway, I’d question if it’s possible anywhere for just sun to start a fire, without any concentration of rays or other interaction.

So apart from Lava which we don't have in the UK and Lightning which is hit and miss, how does a fire naturally start ?

I can't see any other natural way so educate me as I am curious because the only way I could see light being focused naturally is through rain water droplets on plants, but if it's hot enough to start a fire sure that water should have evaporated long before it has concentrated enough energy to start a fire ?

The only ways I know you can start a fire are through a spark, heat via friction, heat via focusing sunlight, electrical heat and with something else that is already on fire/hot enough
 
Be amazing if the fire uncovered the burial spot of Keith Bennett

Yes i know that it is literally impossible for a fire to do that, but still :P
 
So apart from Lava which we don't have in the UK and Lightning which is hit and miss, how does a fire naturally start ?

I can't see any other natural way so educate me as I am curious because the only way I could see light being focused naturally is through rain water droplets on plants, but if it's hot enough to start a fire sure that water should have evaporated long before it has concentrated enough energy to start a fire ?

The only ways I know you can start a fire are through a spark, heat via friction, heat via focusing sunlight, electrical heat and with something else that is already on fire/hot enough

Ehh, are you being obtuse? Lighting is very common and easily starts such fires.

Why are you purposely excluding the main cause of natural fires and then asking what causes fires? Lighting causes wild ride in th UK and almost every country
 
Be amazing if the fire uncovered the burial spot of Keith Bennett

Yes i know that it is literally impossible for a fire to do that, but still :p


There are probably more bodies illicitly buried on Saddleworth Moor than in a decent sized village cemetery.

But it would have been good to allow Keith's mother Winnie Johnson to have had some closure. Too late for her now, almost 6 years too late. :(
 
I wonder why it took the MoD so long to give the green light to send troops after the fire service requested it?
 
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I doubt they would have the range to fly over here on their own, and by the time they are shipped over it will be too late
Actually New York to London (3,454 mi) is safely within their range (one way obviously) even when carrying a payload.

The 747 Supertanker can carry up to 19,600 gallons (74,200 liters) of retardant or water for 4,000 miles (6,400 km)
I have a model of one of these bad boys, it's pretty cool.
 
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