Will WLTP impact our car choices from September?

lordrobs · 3 Jul 2018 at 12:33

I was reading up on WLTP, mainly from the perspective of the impact it might have on company cars, and was surprised to read about the measures manufacturers are having to take to comply.

There was talk of slimming down model ranges, options being removed as adding something like a sunroof means that the car must be tested with and without it so they simply remove the option. Also IIRC VW was saying that some engines won't be available for a number of months while they go through the WLTP system, which must be stretched to the max.

So... is this likely to be a short term thing or do you see a change in the way cars are marketed going forwards? Rather than cars being configurable will there be more standard specifications available or simply less choice to the end user? Will we even care as we move more towards # months @ £### a month as our primary concern when deciding what car we'll be driving?

TheVoice · 3 Jul 2018 at 12:42

SEAT have had to change the hatch version of the Cupra from 300PS to 290PS so it complies.

carrot1401 · 3 Jul 2018 at 13:28

Peugeot had to do the same thing with the 308 GTi: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/peugeo...production-halted-due-to-tightening-emissions

Rilot · 3 Jul 2018 at 13:50

I'd heard about the options testing requirement before. Is there a specification for what options have to be tested with WLTP? Surely they aren't going to force BMW to test a 5-series with HUD and a 5-series without HUD are they?

Nasher · 3 Jul 2018 at 14:30

Nothing a bit of tuning won't resolve

lordrobs · 3 Jul 2018 at 14:34

Rilot said:
I'd heard about the options testing requirement before. Is there a specification for what options have to be tested with WLTP? Surely they aren't going to force BMW to test a 5-series with HUD and a 5-series without HUD are they?

Good question. It looks like anything with an effect on; weight, aero, rolling resistance or power draw has to be considered. So I can't see a HUD being an issue but the list of optional equipment that must be factored in is huge. Even heated seats are listed as an example of drawing more power than a lower specced car.

Realistically I think that individual options will simply disappear and everything will fall into a hand full of option packs that can be applied to an equally low number of base specs.

The eternal optimist in me hopes that the whole thing will result in a slimming down of cars in terms of dimension but more so weight.

What I'm interested to see though is whether we have another shift back to NA engines as a result of the tests running the cars on boost for longer periods of time.

Nasher · 3 Jul 2018 at 14:40

Or they will all turn in to "dealer fit" options and installed after registration, bypassing the requirement to have them tested.

Rilot · 3 Jul 2018 at 14:47

lordrobs said:
It looks like anything with an effect on; weight, aero, rolling resistance or power draw has to be considered.

So absolutely anything then. Even a USB port for phone charging will have an effect on power draw.
I think you're right regarding options. Packs will make a return and you will be able to choose base, mid, or top spec packs with varying levels of equipment. I wonder what happens when some of the technology is changed say like when BMW started sticking CIC in the E63/64 in 2009. Will they need to test them all again because of the differing power draw?

TBH it sounds like a bit of a mess.

lordrobs · 3 Jul 2018 at 14:53

Nasher said:
Or they will all turn in to "dealer fit" options and installed after registration, bypassing the requirement to have them tested.

I did think that but I can't see them getting away with it. Obviously there is nothing, at the moment anyway, stopping you sticking a fat set of 19" rims on your 1.0 TSI Polo yourself the day after you buy it.

It does indeed sound a bit of a mess but the worst part of it for me is the transition period. So in the UK we'll stick with NEDC for our taxation until 2020/21 yet all cars will be tested to WLTP long before that and they will calculate an NEDC equivalent which at the moment appears to give results that are 19% higher than the true NEDC test! So your 2017 spec car is probably going to be cheaper to tax than a 2018 spec despite the latter car probably having lower emissions!

As I mentioned the reason I was looking in to this was from a company car perspective and I'm absolutely convinced now that I don't want to touch one with a barge pole!

Joe T · 3 Jul 2018 at 15:01

Nasher said:
Or they will all turn in to "dealer fit" options and installed after registration, bypassing the requirement to have them tested.

Obviously that's not practical for the majority of currently factory fit options.

paradigm · 3 Jul 2018 at 19:26

Surely as the whole point of WLTP is to make the figures more accurate, just testing the heaviest, least economical power draw and least aerodynamic specced car would suffice!

No one is going to complain that their base spec eco box gets even closer to (or exceeds) the figures of the “worst” variant for that particular engine/output.

b0rn2sk8 · 3 Jul 2018 at 20:35

Haven't some diesel SUV's been pulled because of this. I am thinking Audi SQ5 and a few others? I think M3 was axed early and the M4 had to be modified to pass the test.

Hybrid or nothing for a company car going forward?

Jonnycoupe · 3 Jul 2018 at 23:17

This is the push for larger range PHEV. Also the testing is taking a lot longer so it’s bottlenecked to get the approval of the vehicles.

Nasher · 3 Jul 2018 at 23:19

Joe T said:
Obviously that's not practical for the majority of currently factory fit options.

It would be if they designed everything easy to fit, as it should be. It won't work on most current "luxury" cars where you need to remove the whole dash just to change a head unit.

Jonnycoupe · 3 Jul 2018 at 23:57

Easy fit is the whole dashboard assembly built at a supplier and shipped in sequence to match the car trim and colour to simply fit into the car.

Not sure what your view of easy to fit is - but ain’t the same as mine.

Dangerous Dave · 3 Jul 2018 at 23:58

arfoll said:
Audi CEO was arrested and the prosecutor in Munich has said investigation was on the 3.0L V6 TDI engines which is what the SQ5 uses... BMW still sell the quad turbo M550d. Make of that what you will

750d & 550d have been recalled for software updates due to emissions.

All the manufacturers were doing tricks with the software. I wouldn't be surprised if the non adblu EU6 x30d & x35d BMW diesels come under the spotlight at some point.

TheVoice · 4 Jul 2018 at 14:09

Jonnycoupe said:
Easy fit is the whole dashboard assembly built at a supplier and shipped in sequence to match the car trim and colour to simply fit into the car.

Not sure what your view of easy to fit is - but ain’t the same as mine.

Nasher seems to think cars should be made of Lego.

cuke2u · 4 Jul 2018 at 15:06

http://wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/

xs2man · 4 Jul 2018 at 18:02

lordrobs said:
I did think that but I can't see them getting away with it. Obviously there is nothing, at the moment anyway, stopping you sticking a fat set of 19" rims on your 1.0 TSI Polo yourself the day after you buy it.

It does indeed sound a bit of a mess but the worst part of it for me is the transition period. So in the UK we'll stick with NEDC for our taxation until 2020/21 yet all cars will be tested to WLTP long before that and they will calculate an NEDC equivalent which at the moment appears to give results that are 19% higher than the true NEDC test! So your 2017 spec car is probably going to be cheaper to tax than a 2018 spec despite the latter car probably having lower emissions!

As I mentioned the reason I was looking in to this was from a company car perspective and I'm absolutely convinced now that I don't want to touch one with a barge pole!

That whole tax thing is wrong. Cars are now taxed based on rrp, not emissions.