Have you ever tried pulling power cable off a drum? Do you have any idea how big it would need to be to accommodate volt drop over several kms?
Thai cave rescue - One of the divers has died
- Thread starter Hades
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Lmao, I don't think danlightbulb has ever left his house. So many ludicrous suggestions. Compare their pumping efforts to that of the city water supply for birmingham xD. Have you ever used cable/hose outside? You go around 2 corners and thats it, its snagged due to friction. Where are you going to get the force required to drag all this while you swim? It has to be done slowly and carefully.
Properly accounting for (minimising) voltage drop by cable (not the the only approach that could be used) for that distance would require 1000Kg of bare wire alone heh. That isn't the only approach to it though.
Soldato
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Come on you supposed engineers you can run several smaller cables in parallel rather than a single big fat one. Problem solve instead of 'oh no it cant be done'. Thats why those kids are still in there.
As I mentioned previously, Musk is sending his teams and has offered to drop in full battery packs and pumping equipment to help if needed, so gases etc could be dealt with that way I guess.
The nice thing here, is that we have an extremely talented and educated engineer and billionaire CEO stating that he doesn't know the situation on the ground but has ideas that might help. Unlike our own engineering / cave diving / tunnelling / situation management expert danlightbulb...
In terms of cave diving equipment, the British cave diving specialists that located the boys (Richard Stanton and John Volanthen) have developed and use their own equipment when cave diving, which has helped them secure records and allowed them to assist with other rescues around the world. They have developed equipment that attaches to the side of the body rather than on the back so he can fit into tighter spaces.
In terms of the rescue effort, and as quoted by a diver onsite:
Elon Musk said:
The nice thing here, is that we have an extremely talented and educated engineer and billionaire CEO stating that he doesn't know the situation on the ground but has ideas that might help. Unlike our own engineering / cave diving / tunnelling / situation management expert danlightbulb...
In terms of cave diving equipment, the British cave diving specialists that located the boys (Richard Stanton and John Volanthen) have developed and use their own equipment when cave diving, which has helped them secure records and allowed them to assist with other rescues around the world. They have developed equipment that attaches to the side of the body rather than on the back so he can fit into tighter spaces.
In terms of the rescue effort, and as quoted by a diver onsite:
Diver said:
Soldato
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Yep i cant deploy resources as im not a billionaire. I have also said the assurance is not there, and offered suggestions. Note that musk is saying pumps too small and also talking about electrical supply. So different how? This is a discussion thread is it not. I dont expect this post to make it to thailand ground zero.
Your ideas have been, quite frankly, ludicrous, and you also seem to think that you know far more than anyone that's there dealing with the situation. You're questioning what's going on as if you know the way to deal with this, when you clearly don't, saying how things should have progressed and what should have been done by now, when you don't have the faintest idea of what's happening. And despite being told how ludicrous your ideas and suggestions are, you keep defending them like they're some sort of revelation. I'm not sure how many more people need to tell you this before you realise that what you're saying is rubbish.
Soldato
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No offense but youre an idiot if you think getting more pumps and power to the cave system are ludicrous suggestions. Youre just assuming they are doing that already when you dont know that they are.
Pulling cable has to be done slowly and carefully but why cant you do it in stages? Youre criticising things whilst not recognising there are lots of practical solutions some of which ive mentioned (smaller cables in parallel).
Soldato
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ok. which suggestion would you like to discuss the specifics of. ive acknowledged the sedation suggestion is not viable, choose another.
you sound like the type of person who just criticises everything whilst not coming up with suggestions of your own.
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Hard to say. As someone mentioned earlier, under those conditions you use your air up faster than you would normally. Also, someone mentioned that the currents are flowing into the cave, so on your way back out you’re fighting them, which uses more energy and thus more air.
I can imagine a scenario where he thought ‘I’ve used *half* my air getting in, so the same again will be fine to get out. Then you’re in the thick of it, fighting currents in the dark, squeezing through tight passages and you don’t think to check your gauge because you thought you had plenty of air in reserve. The next thing you know, you take a breath and there’s nothing there.
I’ve had my cyclinder turned off (while under water) as part of a training exercise, and even in controlled conditions like that, it’s not a pleasant experience.
I don't make any suggestions because I'm not an engineer, a diver, nor do I have any experience of caves, and I recognise that anything I say is purely guesswork! So I do what normal people would do and leave it to the experts to come up with the solutions. You, on the other hand, seem happy to make whatever suggestions that pop into your head as if this is going to play out like a film.
You're the one that's been criticising those onsite saying that they should be doing more, that it looks amateur from the photos you've studied, how the British military should be involved and that the air line should have been run ages ago, and then you draw comparisons to water pumped around Birmingham and how it would be dealt with on the underground, which are totally the same as a cave in Thailand that's been flooded due to flash floods
You have absolutely no idea about anything going on there. The conditions, the weather, the terrain, conditions inside the cave (which, by the look of a few videos on the articles posted look claustrophobic as hell tbh!) but you still have a lot to say on the subject.
Soldato
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I know this was going to happen, I know someone would die during this rescue, I said it days ago.
They need to get the kids out, before anyone else dies. Put them in the best swimming suits possible and take them out one by one with the best drivers to help pull and push them out, if they have too, put them to sleep first and pull them out, whatever.
They need to get out, they can't stay inside there for 4 months, someone else will just die again. The damn tunnel is 2 miles long, that means some poor sod each day will have to swim up and down that almost every day bringing them food, water and whatever else they need to stay alive in that cave for 4 months.
And in that 4 months, anything could happen, the cave system could collapse, it could rain more and flood the entire system or more divers are gonna die doing the swim back and forth.
They need to get the kids out, before anyone else dies. Put them in the best swimming suits possible and take them out one by one with the best drivers to help pull and push them out, if they have too, put them to sleep first and pull them out, whatever.
They need to get out, they can't stay inside there for 4 months, someone else will just die again. The damn tunnel is 2 miles long, that means some poor sod each day will have to swim up and down that almost every day bringing them food, water and whatever else they need to stay alive in that cave for 4 months.
And in that 4 months, anything could happen, the cave system could collapse, it could rain more and flood the entire system or more divers are gonna die doing the swim back and forth.
As said in the thread it ain't that simple infact what you are proposing is close to impossible to do right now without a high probability of none of them actually make the journey alive.
LMAO!
Soldato
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I don't make any suggestions because I'm not an engineer, a diver, nor do I have any experience of caves, and I recognise that anything I say is purely guesswork! So I do what normal people would do and leave it to the experts to come up with the solutions. You, on the other hand, seem happy to make whatever suggestions that pop into your head as if this is going to play out like a film.
You're the one that's been criticising those onsite saying that they should be doing more, that it looks amateur from the photos you've studied, how the British military should be involved and that the air line should have been run ages ago, and then you draw comparisons to water pumped around Birmingham and how it would be dealt with on the underground, which are totally the same as a cave in Thailand that's been flooded due to flash floods
You have absolutely no idea about anything going on there. The conditions, the weather, the terrain, conditions inside the cave (which, by the look of a few videos on the articles posted look claustrophobic as hell tbh!) but you still have a lot to say on the subject.
Maybe i have a lot to say because this is a discussion forum with the topical content, its an interesting event, and ive not been provided with the level of detail i desire by the media reports on what actions are being done.
In your world is this thread just a headline with the content simply "experts on site, all fine"?
Soldato
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Bullcrap, they in the best position now, they been given food and fresh water, the kids are small and will find the cave tunnel much easier to swim then the adults pulling and pushing them.
Don't underestimate kids, they are stronger then most snow crystals on this forum. They need to get them out now.
If they don't, someone else will just die again, it will happen.
4 months.
10 kids plus their teacher.
2 mile tunnel system which makes it 4 miles, back and forth which takes 11 hours!
The divers will need to make tons of trips to bring them enough food and water to last 4 months, even if they just survive on tablets alone, that doesn't change the water problem, they gonna get weaker and weaker in there.
Le's not forgot the wee and crap problem too, where is that gonna go? If they don't bring that out by drivers, then they run the risk of disease.
And that's if the water doesn't rise and the rain season is coming, the tunnel could collapse any time between now and then.
More time they waste, more things will go wrong, more things will break or fail.
This was a highly trained Navy driver who didn't bring enough oxygen with him, if he made that mistake, how many mistakes are gonna happen in the next 4 months if they keep them in there.
Someone again will die.
Updating:
Seems the chamber they are inside, the oxygen levels are dropping and that's gonna keep dropping as they breathe, where the hell is the air coming from and how fast is that being replaced against the carbon everyone is breathing out in that place?
More reason, to get them out that cave now.
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Most of the kids can't swim, they've no experience diving and currently water levels are deep enough things like decompression are a factor and deep enough lack of conditioning is a huge factor not to mention the complications of small spaces which are hard enough to do in the dry never mind kitted up and underwater and not having the experience of getting through those spaces under those conditions - if one panics and gets stuck very easily people will die and only the smallest of children could be sedated and moved as an uncooperative load like a bag through that kind of terrain (those kids are probably in the region of 40kg - the kind of bags you'd move equipment though guided in those kind of conditions would normally be sub 20kg).
That isn't to say I think leaving them there for months is a solution who knows what might happen in terms of flood water, etc. and typically somewhere that has never flooded before the one year you need it not to is the one year it breaks records
There you have it people ,it’s that easy Despite what all the experts are saying, but what do they know huh when we have internet experts with far more knowledge and experience
Maybe you could volunteer to be a guinea pig validate your plans