Thai cave rescue - One of the divers has died

Chris Wilson said:
I am a staunch believer in corporal punishment, for children and adults in certain cases. You call it child abuse if you wish, i call it ultimate disciplining ;)

Those who have administered deserved clips around the ears to their kids are usually those whose children I find the least irritating in public or when visiting with them in tow :)
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You'll find plenty of revolting kids from chav families whose parents have smacked them around for misbehaving. It doesn't help. They're still filthy little *****.
 
Kids generally learn & absorb things mostly from their home life. Multiple studies have shown this, I would guess school comes close but ultimately the foundations are laid by their home life.
 
Chris Wilson said:
I am a staunch believer in corporal punishment, for children and adults in certain cases. You call it child abuse if you wish, i call it ultimate disciplining ;)

Those who have administered deserved clips around the ears to their kids are usually those whose children I find the least irritating in public or when visiting with them in tow :)
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And that's why it doesn't work, you've got no escalation. If your initial punishment is jist the same as your ultimate one then the kid learns pretty quick thst thsts was bad as it can get so not to worry.
 
This is interesting from BBC live feed

"
The expert divers involved in the rescue operation will be doing the majority of the work for the boys as they come out of the cave system, Peter Dennis, from the British Cave Rescue Council, told the BBC.

The boys would remain largely passive as they were guided through the cave system, he said.

"There's been a lot of comment on them needing to learn to dive before they could come out. Well, that isn't the case. They're just essentially being pulled through the water," he said.

"They have their full face mask and their air supply so they can breathe as normal. They have an air supply around their face over this much larger screened mask and that's been the key really to getting the four out successfully yesterday."

Mr Dennis also said he thought the boys would have been lightly sedated by a doctor who joined them in the chamber, to prevent them from panicking during the journey out."
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So it turns out the operation is indeed a lot simpler than a lot of us thought it would be. I guess a full face mask inhibits the panic factor of "this is strange breathing underwater". Along with sedation and knowing that it's death behind them if they don't get out, it looks like it isn't the nightmare situation (so far) that most of us thought it would be. That's not to say that at any point it could still go wrong, but looking good for now.
 
Evangelion said:
Seven out, six to go!
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awesome :)

dl8860 said:
So it turns out the operation is indeed a lot simpler than a lot of us thought it would be. I guess a full face mask inhibits the panic factor of "this is strange breathing underwater". Along with sedation and knowing that it's death behind them if they don't get out, it looks like it isn't the nightmare situation (so far) that most of us thought it would be. That's not to say that at any point it could still go wrong, but looking good for now.
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I think it is way harder than most people really appreciate, we already knew they were going to be wearing face masks and obviously they're not going to have a full scuba course either... they're (AFAIK) basically being carried along by a diver who carries the kid's air supply too with a second diver escorting them... apparently at the narrow part the second diver goes through and the kid is passed through to him feet first.

It is still an amazing rescue and must be incredibly challenging for them. The fact that there are nearly 100 divers there but there are only a select few among them who are able really to perform this rescue (thus the delay between taking out the first set of kids and the returning for more the next day etc..) should highlight that even for the experienced divers this is a very challenging thing to do.
 
Tefal said:
And that's why it doesn't work, you've got no escalation. If your initial punishment is jist the same as your ultimate one then the kid learns pretty quick thst thsts was bad as it can get so not to worry.
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you could escalate to breaking fingers.....then knees....:eek::p
 
Loves Love Island said:
awesome :)



I think it is way harder than most people really appreciate, we already knew they were going to be wearing face masks and obviously they're not going to have a full scuba course either... they're (AFAIK) basically being carried along by a diver who carries the kid's air supply too with a second diver escorting them... apparently at the narrow part the second diver goes through and the kid is passed through to him feet first.

It is still an amazing rescue and must be incredibly challenging for them. The fact that there are nearly 100 divers there but there are only a select few among them who are able really to perform this rescue (thus the delay between taking out the first set of kids and the returning for more the next day etc..) should highlight that even for the experienced divers this is a very challenging thing to do.
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I'm not saying it isn't still incredibly challenging, more like expressing a positive surprise at how quickly they are getting them out.
 
The conditions are difficult enough for one driver to lose their life irrespective of removing what is essentially a dead weight through the system to safety in good time. This is a great pooling of minds and professionalism from all over the world, I don't envy any of those divers getting stuck in and dong what needs to be done.
 
Tefal said:
And that's why it doesn't work, you've got no escalation. If your initial punishment is jist the same as your ultimate one then the kid learns pretty quick thst thsts was bad as it can get so not to worry.
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I don't want to turn this thread about an ongoing fight for survival into one on the merits or otherwise of corporal punishment, but would add that having been caned at school, long, hard and with the marks for days to prove it, it is not something I just considered as "bad as it gets", I considered it bloody painful and humiliating! I know of no one, myself included, who put themselves subsequently in a confrontation or situation that would earn a second one ;) Did I deserve it? Yes, undoubtedly. Did it work and I changed my attitudes? Yes. Did I hate my beater? For a while, we later became as much friends as a teacher / pupil relationship might be expected to enjoy, I had only relatively fleeting disdain for him, I knew the rules and pushed my luck too far, a salient lesson in life.
 
Great news they are pulling the boys out now.

Full face masks, passive load and light sedation according to the news.

But my criticisms of the people in charge i made before are showing themselves as valid now. According to the bbc news:

Names of those rescued not released.
Parents not allowed to see them.
Exactly how many boys rescued so far not being confirmed by those in charge.
 
danlightbulb said:
But my criticisms of the people in charge i made before are showing themselves as valid now. According to the bbc news:
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just because they're not feeding your appetite for 24 hour news and all information right now etc.. isn't really much of a criticism

couple of people have posted some cynicism earlier because they haven't had their news fixes either.. like assuming that something has gone wrong because they didn't get an update for the last few hours or haven't seen footage of the four who have been rescued or something, it is a bit silly, it is an ongoing rescue and the priority is clearly to get the boys safe not pander to global media with constant updates
 
Mr Jack said:
The coach wasn't in charge, he was invited to join the boys who were celebrating one of their birthdays.
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Ah, that in essence was the best thing that could have happened. He's been the saviour of a very dire situation. Unfortunately tragedy has already struck but at least they had a chance. Apologies if people think I'm oversimplifying things but I'm trying to say it in a way everyone understands, not cave divers exclusively.

It is an incredible rescue effort.
 
Evangelion said:
You'll find plenty of revolting kids from chav families whose parents have smacked them around for misbehaving. It doesn't help. They're still filthy little *****.
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Kids I know are nipped in the bud early, and turn out to be very respectful kids.

Then you have the snow flakes jumping on ambulance vehicles in London in the name of fun.....

The kids in this situation have been guided brilliantly because they must have been petrified.
 
danlightbulb said:
Its just strange behaviour. Bbc reports the boys in hospital are in isolation and the parents might be able to see them through a glass screen. Why? Some nonsense has been spouted about infection risk which is rubbish.
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It's possible about infection. There is all sorts of diseases in the water, especially in places with limited sewers. Infection is the biggest risk after drowning in a flood.
 
danlightbulb said:
Its just strange behaviour. Bbc reports the boys in hospital are in isolation and the parents might be able to see them through a glass screen. Why? Some nonsense has been spouted about infection risk which is rubbish.
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Why is it? They've just spent a couple of weeks underground in the dark, malnourished, presumably almost living in their own filth, then have had to endure the stress of being evacuated. Their mental state notwithstanding, I presume they are physically very weak, so taking every precaution to ensure the don't succumb to an infection after going through all that seems sensible to me.
 
helpimcrap said:
It's possible about infection. There is all sorts of diseases in the water, especially in places with limited sewers. Infection is the biggest risk after drowning in a flood.
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Could be the other way around. They're weakened as are their immune systems. Don't want them catching anything.
 
danlightbulb said:
Its just strange behaviour. Bbc reports the boys in hospital are in isolation and the parents might be able to see them through a glass screen. Why? Some nonsense has been spouted about infection risk which is rubbish.
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I think the only nonsense here is from the conspiracy posts like this, we had a post yesterday about someone being cynical because they hadn't had their regular 24 hour news updates re: the initial first 4 boys who were rescued...I think it is just you and the other couple of posters being overly cynical because you're not getting enough footage, updates, information etc... and assuming that there is something being hidden/something sinister as a result.
 
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